A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

benebarba wrote:

theckhd wrote:Parry data is giving me:

Code: Select all

General model:
     f(x,y) = 1/(1/C+0.885/(x/a+y))
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       C =       237.2  (234, 240.4)
       a =       243.8  (243.3, 244.3)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 0.0546
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.03649


That doesn't really narrow down C much better than our earlier data sets though. If we knew a exactly that would help - didn't GC give us that number?

Not sure when they'll be shutting down the beta (assuming tuesday), but I can try to get some more data, if you think it'll help. Not sure what kind of spread I can get, or if you have a particular area that's poorly fit I can try to construct sets with numbers in that range.

The more data at the extremes, the better. Here's the surface fit plot I have right now:

The places for improvement would be:

1) high parry rating, low str (i.e. 9%+ parry from rating, <2k str, maybe holy gear reforged/gemmed for parry) - basically to fill out the predrparry axis

2) high parry rating, increasing STR (i.e. take the above gear set and start swapping in prot/ret pieces) - fills out the last side of the square

3) push for maximum parry - get as much high-parry, high-str gear as possible to try and push your overall parry% as high as possible. This could include using the Deathwing stacking STR trinket and parry on-use trinkets. I may try and do a little of this today, if I can find a parry on-use trinket.

4) fill in more data points in the center - not as useful, but every little bit helps

My google-fu is failing me this morning... Can anyone find the blue post that gave us the exact STR->Parry conversion at L85? Or am I misremembering, and there was never such a post?

theckhd wrote:My google-fu is failing me this morning... Can anyone find the blue post that gave us the exact STR->Parry conversion at L85? Or am I misremembering, and there was never such a post?

I'm only finding the 4.2 change to 27% (up from 25) of strength to parry rating.

Level 85 Draenei Paladin premade

Holy Gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 165
Mastery: 1139 (+6.35%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 0 rating, 5.01%
Parry: 1839 rating, 11.26%
Block: 27.62%

Half Holy half Prot gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 1738
Mastery: 1112 (+6.20%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 547 rating, 7.26%
Parry: 2643 rating, 20.87%
Block: 27.62%

Adding in some Ret gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 2760
Mastery: 921 (+5.14%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 623 rating, 7.56%
Parry: 2549 rating, 24.54%
Block: 26.50%

More Ret gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 3461
Mastery: 1260 (+7.03%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 920 rating, 8.71%
Parry: 2587 rating, 27.34%
Block: 28.25%

Ret/Prot gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 4234
Mastery: 1146 (+6.39%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 920 rating, 8.71%
Parry: 2594 rating, 30.23%
Block: 27.66%


<edit> I was going to copy my Pally over again so I could have it at level 85 with all the DS hm gear but the character copy looks to be broken atm.
Want we to use the level 86 copy I have already for the high strength gear sets or will doing it with a Level 86 just make it over complicated?

daishan wrote:<edit> I was going to copy my Pally over again so I could have it at level 85 with all the DS hm gear but the character copy looks to be broken atm.
Want we to use the level 86 copy I have already for the high strength gear sets or will doing it with a Level 86 just make it over complicated?

Can't use 86 data - the STR->Parry conversion will be different, and I don't know the ratio.

Could you give me the naked info for that Dranei paladin though?

While you're at it with that Holy set (which I assume has a lot of haste), could you spec EF and take a quick log of a couple EF casts with high haste? I don't think the tick interval is affected by spell haste, but I don't know that I've seen a confirmation of that either way.

Level 85 Draenei Paladin premade

Naked
Strength: 165
Mastery: 0 (+0.00%)
Stam: 179
Dodge: 0 rating, 5.01%
Parry: 0 rating, 3.68%
Block: 21.52%

<edit>
EF Logs http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-s ... details/3/
1st and 2nd EF casts with zero haste on gear 3rd and 4th EF casts with 2326 (+18.16%) haste

According to the in game tooltip that much haste reduces the tick interval to 2.54 sec.

moar dataz!

human 85 protection pally, Holy gear (no strength)
Strength: 164
Parry: 301 rating, 4.95%

Parry: 538 rating, 5.94%

Parry: 733 rating, 6.75%

Parry: 953 rating, 7.66%

Parry: 1014 rating, 7.91%

Parry: 1455 rating, 9.71%

Adding strength+parry pieces:
Str: 737, Parry: 1609 rating, 12.81%
Str: 1451, Parry: 1923 rating, 17.03%
Str: 1964, Parry: 2056 rating, 19.62%


I'll add more as I get it

With the new data points, along with the exact str->parry conversion ratio at L85 (243.6), this is what the fit looks like:

Code: Select all

General model:
     f(x,y) = 1/(1/C+0.885/(x/243.6+y))
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       C =       236.1  (235.4, 236.8)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 0.07522
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.03483


So our best estimate of the parry cap Cp is 236.1 +/- 0.7

After plugging in some more data from a level 85 warrior from beta:

Code: Select all

General model:
    dodge_fit(x) = 1 / (1 / Cd + 0.956 / x)
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
    Cd =        91.42  (91.01, 91.83)

dodge_fit_GoF =
           sse: 3.1974e-04
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 24
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 0.0037


Code: Select all

General model:
    parry_fit(x) = 1 / (1 / Cp + 0.956 / (x / 243.6))
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
    Cp =        237.1  (237.1, 237.2)

parry_fit_GoF =
           sse: 1.5810e-06
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 14
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 3.3604e-04


Cp_paladin and Cp_warrior are so close I want them to be the same. After 5.0.4 hits EU I'll use a fresh dataset to confirm these findings.

I was under the impression resistance would be removed in MoP, the beta had the resistance pane removed so I thought it was gone.

But seeing Mirror still has the same on use ability I tested it and it still does resist.

Can we assume that by 'removing resistance' all they did was remove resistance effects/spells for MoP content?

When you tested, do you mean it increased the resisted amount?

I wouldn't be surprised that they left Resistance in the game (hell, block rating is still there, take a look at your Block tooltip - 0 rating gives 0.00% block ftw). But I'm surprised that they didn't change the existing trinkets. Maybe they'll just eliminate them at 90, or raise the resistance coefficient such that Cata levels of resistance won't give any measurable effect.

Sort of like Agi->dodge. Technically we still do get dodge from agility, but the conversion is something like 10k agi -> 1% dodge, which makes it basically irrelevant.

I went from 0 damage resisted to ~50% damage resisted, the same as I had in Cata.

Coefficient 'fix', sound very blizzard like.

I hope to have a level 90 soon that owns a mirror, I wonder what that will yield. For 85 content at least mirror is still a very nice trinket.

Something seems to have changed with Harsh Words. On live, while naked, my WoG tooltip reads:
"Consumes up to 3 Holy Power to heal a friendly target for 5131 or harm an enemy target for 3946 per charge of Holy Power"

3946/5131 = 76.9%.

I think we're going to need another round of WoG testing (both offensive and defensive) to see what the SP coefficients are.

Reconfirmed that EF is not being affected by SoI:

WoG+SoI: 7358-7912 healing
WoG+SoT: 6999-7532 healing
EF+SoI: 7026-7528 healing, 729-730 ticks
EF+SoT: 7004-7528 healing, 729-730 ticks

SP was 4642

Harsh word testing: at 4642 SP, the tooltip reads 7267 healing or 5590 damage per HP
The previous data set suggests that the tooltip matches the observed healing value. This data set suggests that the damage value is accurate (5582 average out of 82 casts).

Thus, we can assume the tooltip is accurate and save ourselves a lot of time. Just swapping gear around:

Code: Select all

SP     WoG   HW
4642  7267  5590
4284  7092  5455
3796  6853  5271 
3306  6612  5086
2986  6456  4965
2734  6332  4870
2220  6080  4676
1582  5768  4436
1104  5533  4256
818  5393  4148
532  5253  4040
282  5131  3946

Fit SP vs. WoG:

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General model:
     f(x) = a*x+b
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =      0.4901  (0.4899, 0.4902)
       b =        4992  (4992, 4993)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 1.241
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.3523

Fit SP vs. HW:

Code: Select all

General model:
     f(x) = a*x+b
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =      0.3771  (0.3769, 0.3772)
       b =        3839  (3839, 3840)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 0.8075
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.2842

Fitting SP vs. HW/WoG:

Code: Select all

General model:
     f(x) = a*x+b
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =   2.25e-008  (-3.243e-009, 4.823e-008)
       b =      0.7691  (0.769, 0.7691)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 3.288e-008
  R-square: 0.275
  Adjusted R-square: 0.2025
  RMSE: 5.734e-005

Conclusion: Harsh words does exactly 76.91% of WoG's healing value as damage.

<edit> Just checked, and EF's tooltip matches WoG's. So the base heal of both is still identical.

Re-confirming that EF does not benefit from BoG:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-d ... d%3D114637

EF heal w/o BoG: 7135
EF tick w/o BoG: 709
EF heal w/5 BoG: 14861
EF tick w/5 BoG: 709

21.11% mastery, 31% BoG per stack, 155% at full stack

mythor wrote:I went from 0 damage resisted to ~50% damage resisted, the same as I had in Cata.

Coefficient 'fix', sound very blizzard like.

I hope to have a level 90 soon that owns a mirror, I wonder what that will yield. For 85 content at least mirror is still a very nice trinket.

On my level 90 prot warrior using my Mirror or Prismatic Elixir, I still resist exactly the same as I did in 85 Cataclysm.

I expect blizzard to 'fix' this as soon as there is a way to use this effectively in MoP content.

Mythor (or anyone else with a L90 warrior on beta), could you do me a favor and get me the base (naked, unbuffed) STR and mastery values? Mostly mastery, it's 17.6% at L85, and I'm curious if it stays that way for L90.

Naked blood elf level 90 prot warrior

Str: 203
Agi: 135
Stam: 216

AP: 656
Mastery: 17.6%

Dodge: 5.01%
Parry: 3.21%
Block: 17.07%

Eternal Flame's HoT is now scaling with Bastion:
viewtopic.php?p=739455#p739455

ok, I figure this fits best in here, is there anything that let us believe that they change vengeance again? I mean it is just too OP. I did 80k on Yorshaj, 136k DPS overall on Baloroc HM the other night, our "blood" tank did almost 200k burst DPS on the burning tendon on Spine of Deathwing. our DPS are crying, and I understand them. If a dps with BiS items and almost Perfect playstyle don't even have a chance on beating the tanks it is rather frustrating, and I feel with them.

we also whtinessed a bloodDK doing almost 8 Mio healing on spine in LFR, I did a 800k WoG in ICC on the Lootship.... wth

After reading Thecks cool prot war blog post, I was reminded that I promised to post data from live.

I did not do this yet because it's a bothersome job to collect data. There are likely addons out there that help you with this but my quick google search yielded no useful results. So I made a simple addon that prints all the relevant data to chatlog when you change a piece of gear and appends a predefined tag to it. Then all you have to do is grep the tag from the log and you have all the data. I'll publish the addon for those who care later this week.

New data using 50 samples from a bloodelf prot war level 85 on live.

Code: Select all

General model:
  dodge_fit(x) = 1 / (1 / Cd + 0.956 / x)
  Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
    Cd =       91.03  (90.95, 91.1)

dodge_fit_GoF =
           sse: 8.7511e-05
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 46
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 0.0014


Code: Select all

General model:
  parry_fit(x) = 1 / (1 / Cp + 0.956 / (x / 243.6))
  Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
    Cp =       237.1  (237.1, 237.2)

parry_fit_GoF =
           sse: 1.5810e-06
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 14
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 3.3604e-04


With these extra points we hone in a bit closer to Cd

That addon would be spiffy, and thanks for the update.

http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/statslog

Create a chat channel
Setup a tag and enter the id of that channel
Add, remove or change gear
Logout and grep for your tag in your chatlog