Beta tank set ups and initial thoughts:

[Kihra]

The point is that with SH, you can instant-cast your auto-crit FoL (due to Supplication) while you're running to the next mob. It therefore costs no DPS because it's utilizing otherwise-wasted GCDs (unlike EF or SS).

Yup, and not just when running to the next mob either. If you're chain pulling and never leaving combat, you're even healing up with SH as mobs in a pack die. I'll even cast FoL while being beat on mid-combat if it isn't quite instant if the empty GCD presents itself as long as Supplication is up.

As for those advocating Glyph of Harsh Words, I don't really see the point. It isn't good damage compared to TV, especially not if you have the T13 4pc bonus (which is now +20% to TV damage). It's just a DPS loss. You aren't even remotely in need of an additional ranged pull, since you already have Exorcism and Judgment. If you need more ranged pulls, you can pop Avenging Wrath and throw out a Hammer of Wrath for a third tap. You can also taunt using Reckoning.

I also level with Speed of Light, and that's great too to just zip in to close when needed.

[Skye1013]

Don't you need to cast WoG to build up the instant FoL though?

[Levantine]

Judgement, not WoG.

[theckhd]

Don't you need to cast WoG to build up the instant FoL though?

Judgment

[Skye1013]

Ah, nevermind then.

[superworm]

Here's my Holy guide

Looks nice. Thanks!

[Beaug]

"One additional paladin note is that we are moving the initial tick of Sacred Shield to the end. We didn't want players to feel like the right way to play was to constantly cancel and overwrite the bubble."

In game this change looks to me like we have to refresh SS within the last 6 seconds before it falls off or else we miss one 6-sec tick of it. Am I interpreting that correctly?

[KysenMurrin]

You'll always lose some time if you let it fall off. At the minute it's bugged and the last tick isn't working, so it's worse than it should be.

[Beaug]

You'll always lose some time if you let it fall off. At the minute it's bugged and the last tick isn't working, so it's worse than it should be.

Thanks!

[Klaudandus]

what bothers me is that ss feels completely mandatory for tanks...

[Worldie]

Doesn't really have to "bother" you, it's quite impossible to make 18 talents that are equally attractive to 3 specs who cover 3 completely different roles.

Also, it's not SS that feels mandatory because it's not so "impressive" (we talking of absorbs for less than 1/5th of a standard melee hit), it's the other 2 talents that are quite lackluster. Eternal flame would be interesting (and possibly better than SS) if the HoT portion scaled with Vengeance for example.

[theckhd]

The HoT portion does scale with Vengeance.

<edit> Oho! And it scales with Bastion of Glory now too.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-q ... hp8bj/log/

730-point ticks w/o Bastion
1800-point ticks w/ Bastion (5 Stacks, +146%)

1800/730=2.46, or exactly +146%.

I guess they snuck that in with the SS change.

[Klaudandus]

Doesn't really have to "bother" you, it's quite impossible to make 18 talents that are equally attractive to 3 specs who cover 3 completely different roles.

Also, it's not SS that feels mandatory because it's not so "impressive" (we talking of absorbs for less than 1/5th of a standard melee hit), it's the other 2 talents that are quite lackluster. Eternal flame would be interesting (and possibly better than SS) if the HoT portion scaled with Vengeance for example.

It still feels mandatory, even if you're choosing the lesser of three evils.

[hightin]

Theck, with the new scaling on EF, what does the HoT ticks heal for at 50/100k? Also what does the bubble come out to from SS at 50/100k?

[Skye1013]

With the EF HoT being buffed, how does it compare with SS? Especially since you now have to have expert timing to get the SS bubble to cover certain hits.

Is this going to end up like the debate between WoG heal vs WoG bubble?