Skip to content
Maintankadin

Frequently Argued Questions. AKA: Advanced tanking FAQ.

jcamper1337
Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:59 pm
Just found some awesome info on ELetist Jerks

http://elitistjerks.com/1053037-post335.html

is the post but


/script dr=function(x)return 1/(1/16+0.9560/x)end;DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Need 102.4 combat table coverage. Currently at: "..string.format("%.2f", GetDodgeChance()+GetBlockChance()+GetParryChance()+5+dr(GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL)/122.962))) is the new Macro
_________________
jcamper1337
Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:14 am
I could do some work for the gem section if u would like It would take me a bit to make it all purty and what not but I can spend some time getting it set (Being a Jc and all that)
_________________
Candiru
Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:40 am
On a bossfight where you need all the DPS you can get, you can use HoR every CD to do a whopping extra 20tps! (7DPS)

It doesn't cause a GCD so you can just spam it every time its up!

Is it worth it? Probably not. But if the enrage timer is calling it MIGHT make all the difference.
DisRuptive1
Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:32 pm
If you have to do this, then your dps is fail.
cordelia
Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:01 am
I, also, missed this thread till now. So this is where all the interesting theorycraft disappeared to.

A couple of notes:

Glyphs:
AS glyph.
If this is about how to be an end-game MT, AS glyph is not optional. When threat becomes an issue, weaving in a glyphed AS is a huge TPS increase. We have HotR + consecrate for AoE threat on trash. Raids don't hit bottlenecks vs. trash b/c of less burst threat on secondary mobs. Raids hit bottlenecks b/c tanks can't put out enough threat on bosses. If someone has just hit 25-maly, and DPS is getting threat-capped due to power sparks, a glyphed AS is mandatory.

The question then becomes how to weave in AS into a rotation? The obvious answer is replace every 5th HotR with an AS. More on this elsewhere.

SoV glyph.
I'd like to see some hard numbers wrt. Glyph of SoV. 10 expertise affects very few of our skills. It's easy to quantify Glyph of AS, Glyph of Judgement, Glyph of Consecration. I can't quantify Glyph of SoV, so don't know how to judge it.

RD glyph.
Is glyph of RD really mandatory? I don't think so. With the amount of hit that gets stacked in gear automatically, taunts have an extremely low fail-rate, and you have a backup taunt. If a taunt has a 2% miss rate, it has a 0.04% chance of failing twice in a row. 3% miss rate ==> 0.09%. 4% miss rate ==> 0.16%, and 5% ==> 0.25%. Most of us probably run at ~3% without even thinking. That means 1 in 400 taunts get resisted. Safe enough for 4H progression? It's a judgement call. Do you have a dranei in your party? +1%. A boomkin or Spriest in the raid? +3%. If you run with either boomkin or Spriest in the raid, RD glyph is entirely unneccessary, IMO. Want extra insurance? 40 hit/40 stam food.


OOM section.
Here are thoughts on going OOM and about trash pulling technique.

As dps gears up, you may start chain pulling. HoR is a great chain pull tool, if Exorcism is unavailable. I pull more than one pack every 30 seconds all the time. AS CD is no longer a limitation for chain pulling, thus I often do go OOM. Chain pulling single mobs, especially when stunnable, as they no longer proc BoSanc. Same thing when trying to hold aggro on lots of casters who also don't proc BoSanc - you have to spam consecrate, and run around with HotR, but you don't get BoSanc mana back, and have to rely on SA, which may or may not be enough, especially since Consecrate is tons of mana. Sidenote, never underestimate how easy it is to just run up to a mob and melee it in order to grab aggro. Certainly most trash packs give you tons of mana, but there are exceptions like the above, and they will force you to slow down and drink or risk going OOM.


On the 969 rotation and long CD skills.

Exorcism. Mandatory vs. UD bosses to maximize threat. How do we weave it in?

Sacred Shield. I've run raids without holy pallies. How do you keep this up?

Honestly, I don't know the answers to these - I'm gonna start another thread with some more detailed thoughts on the 969 rotation and long CD moves.


Regarding your threat numbers pulled from Rawr. I'd honestly prefer WWS parses of MT'ing 25-maly, patch, sarth, or something. I don't trust Rawr since last time I checked it was buggy as hell. But maybe it's all fixed and dandy now. I have a hard time believing non-glyphed AS is less TPS than HotR, but then I don't bother looking at numbers anymore. I think the ease of content has made theorycrafters lazy, too.


Difficulty portion:

Sarth+2 is much harder than Maly, IMO.


Lastly, gear section.

BiS trinket:
DMC:G???? LMFAO. I thought you said this was for MT'ing, not LootReaver tanking.

Avoidance numbers.
50% avoidance is err, a bit low, IMO. I have 50%+ in my Max EH set. I run ~58% avoidance in an avoidance set. I typically run with a balanced set of ~56% avoidance with similar stam, but less BV and armor than my EH set. And I still have 4-6 upgrades left.
_________________
Worldie
Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:53 am
I'd disagree on AS. At the moment, yes it's a TPS increase, but with higher DPS weapons and the terribad scaling of AS it will soon become "less than optimal".

Unless you substitute it to a Judgement that comes after a ShoR.
_________________

Uord - Prot Warrior
Darkworldie - Death Knight

Tanking... srs business
cordelia
Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:10 am
Soon? as in Ulduar soon? We'll see once Ulduar comes up. But that's speculation with no basis or theorycraft to back it up. For now, for MT'ing, AS glyph is the biggest single TPS increase you can do for raid boss tanking.

Speaking of Judgements and ShoR, Knaughty, did you include the added ShoR DPS from LoO into the Judgement threat numbers?
_________________
MrDuck
Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:22 am
Well, my average HotR hit is 2498 (with broken promise, DROP YOU FREAKING LL), average AS is 1936. Exorcism 2253, judgement 1552. That's from my kel'thuzad parse, anyway the numbers are +- the same on like everything. So weaving Avenger's shield without a glyph is useless already, 'cos the damage increase on SHoR from judgement does better than that already, and replacing anything else would do less damage/threat. The only wothy thing imo is using exorcism instead of judgement, when it comes that judge CD comes right after ShoR.

Any even then, i'll still rather proc the libram and shave like 500 damage off next 2 attacks(if they land).

And well yeah, i dare to say i'm quite well geared, in average itemlevel 211, so there's nothing too much to improve in the gear, no matter what rawr says.
_________________
cordelia
Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:13 am
And this is exactly the reason why I didn't trust Rawr's numbers to begin with.

Your HotR is much higher than Rawr's numbers, and Judgement much lower than Rawr's numbers.
_________________
Gamingdevil
Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:12 am
http://wowwebstats.com/wquwh4gn4116i?s=130804-173452&a=x26667cf

This is me MT'ing Patchwerk 25 (our Malygos kills seem to have disappeared) As you can see both Exorcism and AS, unglyphed (which I used at the start) are quite a lot lower than HotR. Hell, they're lower than Judgement!

I've MT'd Malygos 25 twice, on both our kills. None of the DPS were even close to me. Threat capping is not going to happen this side of the patch, with or without glyphed AS.

(Armory can be found here if you're interested)

Note that Knaughty named no glyph mandatory, he mearly said "almost mandatory"

SoV is 10 Expertise, it may not apply to all that many of our skills, but it's just godly for a single glyph slot.

You mentioned the Consecrate glyph. As shown in the 969 rotation math, it actually lowers your threat by throwing off your rotation, bad idea to use it, even to wheigh it.

Taunts are on Spellhit, meaning you need quite a bit more hit rating to cap it, the RD glyph is a god sent in this case.
_________________
If it is weak, kill it before it gets stronger. If it is strong, weaken it.