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Maintankadin

Damage mitigation Vs other classes

Spacehamster
Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:52 am

Damage mitigation Vs other classes

One of my guildies tells me that druids have better mitigation due to their armor and high dodge, and are therefore better endgame tanks. So, i want to know how much difference there is in damage mitigation vs other class. I ran some numbers through a tanking sim and the results were that an warrior will take the least damage followed by pallys, with druids actually having the least mitigation. I was hoping anyone could confirm or deny. Thanks in advance.
Gamingdevil
Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:59 am
You're right druids have the least mitigation, since they can receive crushing blows.
They make up for it by having enormous amounts of hp and armour though. All in all druids could be seen as the worst endgame tank, however they certainly have their uses and all tank specs are about equal in viability.
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Turinbar
Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:00 am
Druids can't block... and i doubt they are crush immune. Good OT and best tank for non crushing bosses. thats it.
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Turinbar
Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:16 am
In this Case, it is. Druid armor cap at something like 35k. do the mats. Tell me what stats a Druid need to, in order to be a better tank that a Pala or a Warr on a crushable mob?

Edit: I do think that Druids are great to have in a tanking squad, but imo, as soon as we get 1 tank free, is the druid. Druid feral dps > warr > pala.
I don't think individual wise, only raid wise, I'm sorry if i'm reducing ur glory moments to tanking Bosses that can't crush, but is the best way.
We use all the 3 kind of tanks, we doing great with it, even not rotating much.
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Afraithe
Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:45 am
For 25 man raids, Warrior (MT), Paladin, and Druid is the setup that is most optimal.

Our druid tank can output something like 1000 DPS.

Here is a WWS of him DPSing on Teron Gorefiend (Name: Oakforce).
http://wowwebstats.com/lypzirznaqtkq?s=8925-9235

But it has to be said his DPS doesn't scale as rapidly as the rest of our DPSers now that everyone is getting better gear, but 1000 dps is still good.
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Turinbar
Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:52 am
A tank WILL eat crushes if u don't get a pala tank on the mob, even some warrs have crush immunity. so... i dont get ur point...
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QuantumDelta
Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:56 am
Crushes aren't scary on druids, a druids crush is about equal to the hit that most paladins/warriors would take at equal gear levels.
Honestly, do your own research Razz

There are situations where tanks each outshine eachother.

Druids outshine on physical damage-low attack speed-high dmg fights, like Azgalor, Archimonde, Morogrim, etc.

We've started using BARES quite heavily in T6 instances.
Snake-Aes
Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:22 am
Druids are optimal at handling spike damage(seriously, when they take a crushing I think "you sure that wasn't a normal hit?"), and the monster's attack speed has a very low factor in it's tanking. On the other hand, it looks like druids are more expensive to mantain alive.add to it a damage-dealing heavy threat generation and you have the best offtank of the game, and great tank for big spiky damage fights.
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Turinbar
Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:22 am
Ok, this is gona be my last post on this thread since i was merely giving my opinion, and ppl quoted my stuff as if i was attacking druids. I am not.
Archimonde cannot crush
I don't know the Azgalor fight. (browsed some stuff, but i can't get steady info)
Morogrim will crush a druid for ~7k while a Paladin will keep beeing hit by 4k, and reducing ~400 from block.

I don't run numbers or calculate stuff, i just talk about what i have seen on my game experience, i never been at Archimonde, or Azgalor. If i ask our MT to let the druid tank Moro, or to let me tank Moro, he probly commite suicide, same with Leo, so... yeah, what i see in foruns, is that each Class have his strenghts, and his Flaws, and we shouldn't try to take Archimonde away from druids, but they can't take Moro or Leo from us either. Plz, don't act like i'm trying to kill all the pweety Bears, i like them a lot, but each character have his own place. So, we are better at some stages, Druids are better at some other stages, Warrs are better at some other, Hell! Lock tanks rock! Just each monkey on his own branch.
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QuantumDelta
Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:26 am
I'll rephrase to be a little more specific to your example then.

Warriors are THE WORST tanks, for Morogrim.


To sum up for the op:

Druids (when geared) are the best mitigation tanks.
Warriors and Paladins are the best avoidance tanks (it's about even, honestly).
Paladins are the best effective health tanks in extreme-end-game gear from what I can see.

This is however all subjective, as different fight scenarios (dual wield bosses, multiple mobs, etc) change a lot per encounter.

Druids are excellent MTs but do have more options than the other two tank classes when they're OTing.

With a standard raid layout for Tankadin guilds (war/pally/feral/feral) the person who would end up MTing normally the most would be the Paladin or the War, and there are different schools of thought as to why.
That said, no class should be excluded and MOST comments you might find about why someone shouldn't do anything -unless they are originally conceptualised by the person saying it- are normally misunderstood and wrong, or taken as a gospal.
Ups and downsides of the Wiki, is it will always reflect public opinion, which is not necessarily the facts.
I've noticed that the less independent a guild is (theorycrafting/tactics guides/etc) normally the more rumour-mill ruled they are.

...To shorten it into a conclusion:

Ultimately unless there is a gimmick involved (shear/spellreflect/soulscream/morogrim(EQ)/agro-resets(Leo)) you are very rarely going to find yourself losing out because you're using an alternate class.
Which is the way it should be, that said, it pays benefit to the raid to have all classes available at a competent level.
Lore
Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:40 am
Druids can MT anything but Illidan and RoS P2. They tend to have some trouble in fights with a lot of spell damage going around as they have no innate damage reduction outside of their high armor. Otherwise it's pretty much as Afraithe has been saying - a crushing blow on a Druid tends to be only slightly more damage than a regular hit on a Warrior or Paladin, and a regular hit is much less. They tend to have less raw avoidance (though I've seen some druids with ridiculous amounts of dodge). In short, they're pretty much the definitive Effective Health tank.
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kalbear
Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:23 am
God, it's hilarious reading paladin tanks being such snobs.

Druids are brilliant against mobs that hit hard and slowly because of their awesome mitigation. No other class can mitigate damage as well as a druid tank. Unless there is a substantial gear/skill level difference, there are plenty of encounters where a druid is going to be the best tank and more where they're as good as anyone else. Much like...the paladin.

And (this is the best part) druids bring a lot of utility that paladins don't. They can easily switch to DPS and put out great DPS, which makes them the best OT and also means they don't have to switch out in fights. They give great buffs and debuffs that paladins don't. They fill a role that paladins simply can't and wish they could.