Improved Judgement

Okay, I'll try and do it again. Assume that at the 0 second mark, HS is going to run out and be renewable. Also assume that you can judge then as well.

0 sec: cast HS and judge (and have a macro to do this, which is a bit odd)
1.5 sec: reseal
8 sec: judge & reseal
10 sec: cast HS

So you're right, you can get it in. You'll still interfere every 5 refreshes, but that's not as bad. You'll also miss some attacks in there per my original statement.

And that assumes perfect reflexes.

Consecrate also causes some issue here, as stated. You'll either be missing more consecrate times or you'll be missing more seals. And while it doesn't sound like it should be, missing a hit with a sealed attack is actually a fairly big difference in terms of TPS in comparison to what is gained from judging.

Yeah I ran out a timeline, once you've settled into a rotation (meaning Consecration has started running into Holy Shield, which always happens, and Judgement is occasionally overlapping) you end up with a 40-second rotation that looks like this:

0.0 HS
0.0 Judge
1.5 Consecration
3.0 SoR <- lost 3 seconds of SoR
8.0 Judge
10.0 HS
11.5 Consecration
16.0 Judge
16.0 SoR
20.0 HS
21.5 Consecration
24.0 Judge
24.0 SoR
30.0 HS
31.5 Consecration
32.0 Judge
33.0 SoR <- lost 1 second of SoR
40.0 HS
40.0 Judge <- back to where we started

So that's 4 seconds lost every 40 in two chunks of 3 seconds and 1 second. And yeah, assumes no latency etc. I have a feeling latency would end up leaning a bit more in imp judge's favor.
_________________
You wanted to raid but didn't get far, cuz you couldn't copy to the P! T! R!

when i am tanking HS comes first, now it is down for prolly 1/8 of a sec on average cause of lag, now judge/reseal tends to end up being closer to ¼ so each cycle my judge gets a smidgen further from the HS until i lose one, i have been considering 1 point so i can be looser with judge and consecration, but i still would only use 1 per cycle.
_________________

Hmm. I wonder if it's better to do consecrate as soon as you can and do the judgments later. You're assuming you always do the HS/consecrate at every 10 seconds, but there's no reason you have to do consecrate then.

I would also imagine that latency would actually hurt improved judgment more. If there's latency that tends to mean casting spells later, not earlier (since you've got to make sure that HS is being cast at all times) and that'll require you to miss more judgments.

In any case, missing 4 seconds of SoR is likely to result in missing about two swings of SoR on the average. (if you think that 3 seconds should only result in 1 miss, think of the situation where you're about to swing and then judge). If that's the case, you miss two swings in 40 seconds and gain one judgment. The net result (at the 100/400 damage level) is 200 damage over 40 seconds, or 5DPS/10TPS roughly. In the best case (no weapon SoR misses, which is impossible with that cycle above), assuming that damage level, you're looking at 20 TPS total.

Adding a 0.2 second (200ms) latency to the rotation above:

0.0 HS
0.0 Judge
1.7 Consecration
3.4 SoR <- lost 3.4 seconds of SoR
8.2 Judge
8.2 SoR
10.2 HS
11.9 Consecration
16.4 Judge
16.4 SoR
20.4 HS
22.1 Consecration
24.6 Judge
24.6 SoR
30.6 HS
32.3 Consecration
32.8 Judge
34.0 SoR <- lost 2 seconds of SoR
40.8 HS
41.0 Judge <- back to where we started... kinda

Notice that the Judge is now happening slightly later than the HS, though the cooldown hasn't changed. Continuing on...

40.8 HS
41.0 Judge
42.5 Consecration
44.2 SoR <- Lost 3.2 seconds of SoR

So adding 0.2 latency actually resulted in 0.2 seconds less between judge and reseal on the next rotation.
_________________
You wanted to raid but didn't get far, cuz you couldn't copy to the P! T! R!

Ah, I understand you better now. However, here's a simpler way of looking at it....since your weapon speed is independent of your skill usage, it seems like it'd be reasonable to simply consider the damage loss as proportional to the seal time loss over time. So if you're losing 5.4 seconds of SoR time every 40 second, you just have to compare a 13.5% SoR loss to a 25% JoR gain.

The SoR numbers on the threat sticky are off, but with my approach I'm actually getting similar numbers to you....interesting food for thought. I'd still value the talent for utility (judging different targets, switching judgments), but the threat, while not awful, does seem less than impressive when you have to maintain 100% HS uptime.
_________________

That's a reasonable approach, but I wanted to be a bit more concrete with the numbers. Especially since it's not a continuous graph of damage and it does matter when the attacks come in.

The interesting thing to note is that the damage on SoR is greater per second than the damage on JoR, even when you factor it at an 8-second clip. The overall 1-h spell coefficient is 9.2% per 1.0 seconds. For judgments, it's 73% per judgment, or 9.125% at an 8-second judgment. Thus losing 13.5% is a bit more effecting than gaining 25%. Not much though, but it's something to note.

And then there's yet another factor: spell hit vs hit. Since SoR uses hit and paladins reach the hit cap faster than the spell hit cap, you'll likely miss more often with JoR in general. While you can get spell hit to remove this issue somewhat, it's probably not wise to focus on spell hit as a stat any more.

I guess I've pretty much convinced myself that it's not nearly as good a talent as one might think and certainly not a must-have for threat. I suspect those two points would be better in reckoning for raw threat output and utility. Heck, they might be better in PoJ, but I don't remember how speed boost correlates to threat output.