Field testing: Judgement of Wisdom.

I'm a pretty big fan of Judgement of Wisdom. Even if I am main tanking a boss I will almost always put Judgement of Wisdom up over Judgement of the Crusader for its great utility. As many of you may know: Judgement of Wisdom can and will restore more mana to the mana-using raid DPS than a shadowpreist will restore to a party.

That's not why I'm writing this post, though. I was doing some searching and I couldn't find the exact proc rate of Judgement of Wisdom. So I recruited a guild mate, and he let me attack him 1000 times in the back. Of the 1000 hits I restored 37,666 mana. at 74 mana a proc, that's 509 procs. I estimated it was about 35-40% just observing while tanking, I had no idea the proc rate was as high as 50%. But it doesn't end here either...

I was noticing my Darkmoon Card: Vengeance was proccing every now and then which was really odd because I took absolutely no damage in the time that I hit him 1000 times. I started to notice that the Vengeance was only proccing directly after a Judgement of Wisdom proc and sure enough: Vengeance hit 47 times and crit 2 times...

My theory is that for some odd reason as far as the darkmoon card: Vengeance is concerned: receiving mana from Judgement of Wisdom counts as taking damage (I received no procs of reckoning nor redoubt). 10% (trinket proc rate) of the 509 wisdom procs is 50.9, and my Vengeance trinket procced 49 times.

So this is what we have here:

Judgement of Wisdom in conjucntion with Darkmoon card: Vengeance.

-Your raid DPS has a 50% chance to restore 74 mana per attack. (effectively reduces the cost of all spells [that proc JoW] by 37 mana + free mana if you auto attack [paladins, shamans, hunters])
-You generate some threat every time you regenerate 74 mana. (not positive on this one, I'm assuming this, but it probably isn't much threat anyway).
-+51 Stamina (+65 stam if you count kings, sacred duty and combat expertise)
-You have a 10% chance when hit by an attack or harmful spell to deal 95 to 115 holy damage to your attacker.
-Your attacks have a 5% chance to deal 95 to 115 holy damage to enemies inflicted with Judgement of Wisdom. (50% of 10% is where this 5% comes from.)

So... with all of these bundled together... is it even worth it to use Judgement of the Crusader? I know post 2.3 some things will change... but what are some of your thoughts?
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a lot will depend on the exact meaning of the 2.3 patch note

Darkmoon Card: Vengeance: This item will no longer trigger from environmental damage.
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It wasn't environmental damage. I didn't take any damage. The mana I was receiving from judgement of wisdom was acting like damage to me.
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right, but its only supposed to proc off of harmful spells or effects, which JoW/SoW is neither so fixing the environmental part may change that as well
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Ooh, sorry, I totally misunderstood you. I didn't realize quoting a patch note.

I guess I could always test it on the PTR. I think "environmental damage" has something to do with the fact that Thaladred the Darkener would sometimes proc my vengeance trinket for no reason at all.
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Environmental Damage relating to that particular trinket could be/probably is things like enemy auras effecting you, like the last boss in Crypts, I've heard stories of tanks aggroing him by having their trinket proc off of his pasive aura.
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I'm pretty sure the proc rate has been determined to be 40% (same as JoL), tbh I'd be using JotC if I'm MTing a nasty DPS race type boss, who cares how much regen the raid has (and thus more DPS) if you can't keep up with their TPS in the first place, the extra DPS is wasted. When people are pulling out 1300-1800 DPS on you you need all the threat you can get whilst retaining great tank stats. If your threat is not an issue on a given encounter I'd be using JoW though (by "not an issue" I mean that people who wouldn't have to hold back if you used JotC would now have to if you used JoW).

DMC: V is not really a threat item, it's just a handy bonus. If you are fighting a boss with say a 1 second attack speed, and you have 50% avoidance, then you will on average get hit every 2 seconds. So every 20 hits incoming you will have a DMC: V proc. It procs for an average of 105 damage*1.9 = 199.5 threat, if every 20 hits you get a proc, thats 199.5 threat every 20 seconds which = 199.5/20 = 9.975 TPS.

JoW threat (I think it does generate threat, as it's unnatural power gain), comes from: 4% proc from DMC (assuming 40% base proc rate): V and 40% proc from swings and judge, say an average of 1.8 weapon speed.

You get 33 1/3 swings per minute, 40% proc JoW = 13 1/3 procs per minute = 986 2/3 mana per minute = 493 1/3 threat per minute = 8 2/9 TPS.

Judgement procs JoW too, so if you have Imp Judge and use it every 8 secs thats 7.5 Judgements per minute = 3 procs per minute = 222 mana per minute = 111 threat per minute = 1.85 TPS.

DMC: V will proc from every 25th JoW proc (4%), so combing the above you get 16 1/3 procs per minute of JoW total, abd every 25th procs DMC: V. 16 1/3 procs in 60 seconds => 25 procs in 91 41/49 =(approx) 91.8 seconds. So you get an extra card proc every 92 seconds, which equates to 105 dmg every 92 seconds = 199.5 threat every 92 seconds = 2.17 TPS.

Therefore in total you gain 8 2/3 + 1.85 + 2.17 = 12.68666...=12.7 TPS by using JoW together with DMC: V. I think that's pretty safe to disregard considering that if you are aclready at maximum mana then you don't get threat from extra mana.

This is all based around 1 sec attack boss and 50% avoidance. In practice you will have about this much avoidance, maybe less maybe more depending on various things, and bosses don't always attack at 1 sec speed. But overall the gain will be minimal. If you use JotC this is 190 spell dmg (218.5 in 2.3) which if 1 spell dmg = 0.63 TPS (saw this pulled from various threads) then JotC = 137.655 TPS, which is quite a lot.

I think basically you need to use as much tank gear as you can to avoid getting owned by damage spikes on an encounter if you are MTing a nasty hitting boss, and you can't afford to use JoW because you will gimp your threat too much. Your lower threat in turn lower DPSers DPS more than if JotC was up and they didn't have the regen. If it is a long fight then JoW is probably better as DPSers will be a bit slower anyway, and if you aren't MTing JoW is of course better. There are many situations where JoW is better but my opinion is if you are MTing something nasty, you should put on maximum tank gear (up to the point in which you are comfortable at staying alive) and use JotC and go nuts, because DPS will be going nuts too, and you need to keep up.
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I've observed a 50% proc rate on judgments in my (admittedly relatively small sample size) testing

I don't know how, but in WSG(I was holding the flag at the top of the horde base) my vengeance card actually killed someone that was all the way on the other side of the map, and I got an HK for it =/.
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That would be a priest casting mind vision on you.

They often do that to the flag carrier as it lets them see where you are regardless of range.

lol @ killing them for that though
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