passive uncrushability... paladin style

it's been shown to be possible with warriors at the extreme end of raiding, and there are obvious benifits to it survivability wise.

however as our avoidance goes up so our threat output from the sheild goes down, and in many ways wasting part of the cost of it's use, and beyond that such focuesed gear may see overall spellpower/theat take a hit

new gear from heroic rewards and zulaman seems to be offering large ammounts of block and dodge rateing, our stamina potential is increasing.

is pasive uncrushability a goal worth chasing (and actually acheivable) for a paladin. would threat output suffer too much

is there a talent build that can support pasive uncrushability to a better extent than the standard 49/12 ?

I don't think so, I asked the warriors why this was even interesting to them and their reasons were to save rage on shield block activation.

However, it doesn't really seem like they are interested in really being passively uncrushable, it's just theory crafting fun.

For us, we gain substantial threat from holy shield so it seems to me we would save nothing.

No, i don't think it's worth it at all. We would still be using holy shield regardless of mana for the reactive damage procs as it's another source of threat...

Warriors want to save rage on shield block mashing to increase threat with other abilities as well as get more than 2 blocks per 5 seconds to avoid the crush-every-time-you-parry problem. I'd see that as the biggest benefit, as it is now for warriors even on a slower boss like gruul, if one of your hits gets parried there's a good chance for a crush.
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Passive uncrushability is ALSO useful to warriors for fights like Prince and Morogrim. I don't think the payoff is worth the effort involved. (By the time you reach the gear needed for passive uncrushability, you are already farming those bosses.)


For us, the only positive benefit it would give us is the limitless amount of AOE tanking we could handle. When you have 15-20+ mobs on you, your shield block charges are getting eaten up within 2-3 seconds. (As will any redoubt procs...). Passive uncrushability would allow us to block 100% of incoming hits. This would be significant with a high block value (not likely to have many +block value gear slots left open if your goal is passive uncrushable) as you could likely do shattered halls normal mode in one pull per boss.

You don't have to lose holy shield. Just because you don't gain a benefit from the 30% to block, doesn't mean you don't have to use it. I'd continue to spam it as a threat move. So, your threat wouldn't suffer at all (except the likely loss of spell damage, weapon in particular).


So, basically, it would be useful for doing melee type 5-mans in HUGE pulls and making crazy videos of a single Spartan paladin taking on the equivalent of the persian army by himself... but I wouldn't want to sacrifice the stam, mitigation, and threat I would need to lose in order to wear just the right gear combination.
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"With your shield or on it" - Spartan Code of Conduct

At the deep high hard end of raiding, I'm seeing warriors with 97 - 100% passive crush mitigation. That's pretty freaking sweet IMO. Not quite 102.4, but still huge insurance from the various nasty ways to get wtfpwnt.
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Our current Warrior MT has a set of gear that he is passively crush immune in. He rarely uses it though, really only breaks it out for soft hitting stuff like Kaz'Rogal where rage is a serious issue for him at his level of gear. I see little use for a paladin as even if i'm crush immune passively i'm still using HS for the possible threat generation and nothing that crushes can currently come close to eating 8 HS charges in 10s unless you purposely have no dodge/parry on your gear.
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Lansky BE Paladin Mannoroth
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Mannoroth&n=Lansky

The main issue is the loss of hitpoints imo. Looking at 2.3 there ist no question which way to go: the dependence on stamina for filling the gap to warrior's HP is way too strong to even think of passive crushing immunity.

And there is rarely any use of it...HS has enough charges in most cases.

If you play with a significant amount of latency, passive uncrushability would save you during those 500ms between Holy Shield rebuffs.
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[url=http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Uther&n=Brute]

thanks for the replys, I thought the idea was worth consideration and wanted to know if it had been attempted by any one in a position to try it,

I wanted to know what gear they'd used to get there (or indeed if anyone had theory crafted the "optimum suit" already)

and obviously what talents they'd taken to augment that uncrushability and what they'd used to maintain there threat..

I'll leave you to ponder what I'm pondering...

*whistles Pinky and The Brain as he wonders off*

it'd be interesting to see how close we could get via theorycrafting.
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We can get crushing immune with some thingies, same like as warriors.

BUT we will still use Holy Shield for threat, so it would be completely useless to be Crushing Immune.
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It wouldn't be completely bad AOE tanking a ton of mobs. Just MOSTLY bad.
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So. I have determined it is =theoretically= possible >.>

Battleworn Tuskguard
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33421
+40 Block Rating
+51 block value
+23 Dodge Rating

Lightbringer Chestguard
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30991
+31 def rating
+23 block rating
+47 block value

Seeker's Wristguards
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32279
+21 def rating
+28 block rating

Jungle Stompers
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33191
+20 def rating
+28 block rating
+42 block value

Pauldrons of Stone Resolve
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33481
+20 def rating
+28 block rating
+30 block value

Unwavering Legguards
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33515
+22 def rating
+30 block rating
+59 block value

Girdle of Mighty Resolve
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32342
+26 def rating
+25 block rating
+38 block value

Signet of the Last Defender
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33499
+28 block rating
+42 block value

Seventh Ring of the Tirisfalen
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30028
+17 def rating
+24 block rating
+24 block value

Bulwark of the Amani Empire
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33326
+19 block rating
+42 block value

Pendant of the Titans
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32362
+25 dodge rating
+21 def rating

Lightbringer Gauntlets
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30985
+30 def rating
+22 dodge rating
+30 parry rating

Phoenix-Wing Cloak
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29925
+27 dodge rating
+22 def rating

Enchants:
+12 dodge rating to cloak
+16 def rating and 17 dodge rating to helm

Talents:
5/5 Anticipation
5/5 Deflection

**ASSUMING 87 AGILITY** (my base agil as human)

Totals
Def rating: 216 (91+20 = 111 or +4.44%)
Dodge Rating: 116 (6.13%)
Block Rating: 273 (34.62%)
Parry Rating: 30 (1.27+5% or 6.27%)
87 agil (+3.48% dodge)

+14.05% dodge
+10.71% parry
+39.06% block
+0.65% (base dodge)
+15% (base miss/parry/block)
===============
102.88%

Total Defense: 461 (3.56% crit chance)

Easily fixable by socketing all with thick dawnstones in all 16 sockets, giving you +128 def rating (total of +145def or 495 def total)
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If you're passively uncrushable, you're also uncrittable regardless of your defense.
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