Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Ok this isn't the standard "when does it kick in" question.

I was having a conversation with a friend of mine when he mentioned something I had never heard before. He said dodge suffers from diminishing returns, as in the more you dodge in any given fight the less chance you have to dodge the next attack. I told him I knew stacking dodge rating suffered from diminishing returns but once you're avoidance is at a certain percentage, you will always avoid hits based on that percentage. His reply was

"If you have 50% dodge 50% parry that's 100% avoidance...but both suffer diminishing returns. After each dodge or parry, your avoidance goes down slightly."

I had never heard or seen this before. I asked him if he had any resources I could read on it, and it was mainly anecdotal evidence so I wanted to ask you guys and see if anyone here knew for sure.

It is in effect always. But the percentage at which you should start to care is at 700 rating. But you have to be around 28% dodge for that.

Nikachelle wrote:It is in effect always. But the percentage at which you should start to care is at 700 rating. But you have to be around 28% dodge for that.

No offense but that really wans't the question at all In fact my first sentence was "This isn't your standard when does it kick in question". I understand diminishing returns in regards to stacking dodge. Read OP for details.

On a side note I'm almost at 28% dodge but I only have 554 dodge rating so the numbers you posted seem to be off a bit.

rokkon wrote:

Nikachelle wrote:It is in effect always. But the percentage at which you should start to care is at 700 rating. But you have to be around 28% dodge for that.

No offense but that really wans't the question at all In fact my first sentence was "This isn't your standard when does it kick in question". I understand diminishing returns in regards to stacking dodge. Read OP for details.

Either I'm iliterate, or you changed your post at some point. At this point in the morning, either one could be true for me.

Edit: You ARE changing your posts after you've posted!

I've actually heard of quite a few people having the same inaccurate assumption that you friend has. But they're wrong.

Diminishing Returns simply means you get less % avoidance for each avoidance rating you acquire. It has nothing to do with your chance to dodge going steadily downward over the course of a fight.

I edited the original just now to highlight the important parts and change the title to make sure people actually read it

Dodging one attack does not lower your chance to dodge. It's mathematically less likely to dodge 3 hits in a row than just 2 etc, but it doesn't actually lower your chance. If you have 50% dodge (after diminishing returns), each time you are attacked, you have a 50% chance to dodge.

If your dodge + parry + miss came to 102.4%, you would never ever be hit.

rokkon wrote:I edited the original just now to highlight the important parts and change the title to make sure people actually read it

No, but you also changed your second post as I was responding because you can see I only quoted a small amount, which was your original response.

Jasari answered you. I'm walking away from this now.

Diminishing returns kicks in from the first Dodge Rating or Parry Rating you equip.

If i'm not mistaken Diminishing returns increases with every point of Dodge / Parry you equip on you. Meaning that at you will always gain less pure avoidance from a point of Dodge/Parry that you will be adding in the future.

Although there are some stats that are not affected by DR like: Block rating, Defence Rating (Converting into defence) but the amount of miss/dodge/parry gained is affected by DR.

Hope it helps.

It's a common misconception but each hit is calculated entirely independently of all others before or after and they all run on the same percentages as each other (assuming the same attack each time, no changes in buffs/debuffs, no procs etc).

It's exactly like flipping a coin over and over. People often make the mistake of thinking you have 50% chance to get heads on your first flip but far less chance of getting heads five times consecutively, therefore the chance to get a head reduces the more times you flip it. That is, of course, incorrect. You always have a 50% chance to get a head on any flip of a coin as no matter how many times you've flipped it before as it will always only have two sides, heads and tails.

If you have 25% chance to dodge on the first hit you will have a 25% chance to dodge on the second and third hits too. However, you will have a 6.25% chance to dodge twice consecutively and a 1.5625% chance to dodge three times consecutively. That's not diminishing returns, however, that's simply the nature of probability. With 25% dodge chance, given a large enough sample size, you will eventually dodge exactly 25% of incoming hits.

Sathoris wrote:Diminishing returns kicks in from the first Dodge Rating or Parry Rating you equip.

If i'm not mistaken Diminishing returns increases with every point of Dodge / Parry you equip on you. Meaning that at you will always gain less pure avoidance from a point of Dodge/Parry that you will be adding in the future.

Although there are some stats that are not affected by DR like: Block rating, Defence Rating (Converting into defence) but the amount of miss/dodge/parry gained is affected by DR.

Hope it helps.

This is not what the OP was asking at all... hence the *not the standard question* in the title and the

Ok this isn't the standard "when does it kick in" question.

and the

No offense but that really wans't the question at all In fact my first sentence was "This isn't your standard when does it kick in question". I understand diminishing returns in regards to stacking dodge. Read OP for details.

I think people are getting that misconception because DM is also attached to fear and now to taunt, where the more you do it the more likely the mob is become "immune". I bet they just hear DR and think "oh, you dodge less the more often you dodge" That would be pretty F-ing scary if you ask me... tryin to kill a boss before i can't dodge any more!!

Thanks for the input everyone, it's always nice to double check these things to be certain.

badgermonkey wrote:Dodging one attack does not lower your chance to dodge. It's mathematically less likely to dodge 3 hits in a row than just 2 etc, but it doesn't actually lower your chance. If you have 50% dodge (after diminishing returns), each time you are attacked, you have a 50% chance to dodge.

If your dodge + parry + miss came to 102.4%, you would never ever be hit.

Which was proven by rogues tanking the black temple.

101.8% actually. Man no one remembers that.