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Maintankadin

Tanking Stats

Boruc
Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:53 pm

Tanking Stats

Weren't sure if this were right place to post, if not move it if needed.

I have seen every member of this site posting to peoples in need of advice that they should stack as Health>Armor>BlockValue>Avoidance - I can't see where you got this load of crap from as Avoidance are the best stat a tank got, avoiding a full attack helps alot more than getting hit 99% of the times with a big health pool, when you stack health only the healers will bigger problems keeping you alive and you will have to bring more healers than you mainly need for a raid.

You don't really need spell damage to hold aggro on bosses so don't use a spell damage 1h go for a tanking weapon, and the green shoulders from the Netherstorm quest are actually better than the Righteous Shoulders for boss tanking.

The "pro's" on this forum seem to lead the new paladin tanks to a dark place with alot of uneccesary wiping.

If you are aoe tanking THEN you should go for Armor>Spell Damage>Block Value>Health>Avoidance.

For boss tanking Armor>Avoidance>Block Value>Health>Spell Damage.

Blessing of Sanctuary are better for tanking than Blessing of Kings, reduce damage and does holy damage, Blessing of Kings doesnt help your Avoidance much, same with other tanking stats.

Go for SoR\JoR not SoB\JoB, I can't say anything about alliance's Seal as i have never tested it, I'm horde and proud of it.
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70 Prot paladin - Boulderfist EU! Go for avoidance!

Anuji
Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:26 pm
Search for the post about Blessing of Sanctuary please.

for the rest..

the more spelldmg you have.. the more aggro you generate, the earlier DPS can go at full speed.

Sure for bosses "full-" avoidance is very nice.. but think of this:
the more you block the more aggro.
if you dodge, parry or the opponent just miss you don't generate any aggro and with low-spelldmg your SoR will generate not enough aggro for a Incinerate-spammin' Warlock who is right now brain-afk so he can't hit the de-aggro spell (forgot the name... damn) and your raid wipes.

aaah edit: for the shoulder's.. link it please, don't know which you could mean.

mhh.. yeah and edit 2:
Nobody says that you should go for SoB here ...
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http://armory.wow-europe.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Blackrock&n=Anuji
Hope it's understandable what i'm sayin' Very Happy
Boruc
Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:40 pm
I use 0 spell dmg gear for tanking bosses and dps can go out at once and got no treath problems.

The shoulder's are called something with Nexus, green shoulders with Agi, stam, block rating, block value on, suppose their better if you got enough defense to be crit immune.
I saw a topic about someone saying that you should use SoB for more mana and had to comment that.
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70 Prot paladin - Boulderfist EU! Go for avoidance!

Anuji
Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:45 pm
so with what geared raidmembers you're raiding and what are you raiding?

i'm tanking Karazhan against t5-like equiped fury-warriors and warlocks.. that's freaking annoying sometimes...

(downed Vashj about 4-5 weeks ago, Kael's next in this week i guess)
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http://armory.wow-europe.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Blackrock&n=Anuji
Hope it's understandable what i'm sayin' Very Happy
Boruc
Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:52 pm
Been on a break from wow but i have tanked in Kara, Gruul, Mag, SSC, TK - cleared kara, gruul, mag, half ssc and void reaver in tk - i left my old guild due to slack so havent raided any lately.
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70 Prot paladin - Boulderfist EU! Go for avoidance!

Solthas
Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:53 pm
These then: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30291

Um, those have 1/3 the avoidance of the D3 shoulders, a stat you seem to be preaching.

It would be about 1.3 avoidance, ~15 stam, 80 or so armor, 15 spell dmg, 22 intellect... versus 24 block value and about 1.1% block by my rough math. That is not a good trade, however you try and spin it.
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Boruc
Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:01 pm
I said i werent sure but Righteous shoulders are better <.<
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70 Prot paladin - Boulderfist EU! Go for avoidance!

Lore
Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:07 pm
Yeah I'm going to play the "screenshots or it didn't happen" card here. You're in primarily blues, and halfway through Honored with Violet Eye. I find it somewhat unlikely that you've done any serious tanking. So, while your theories can and usually do work well in 5-mans and early Karazhan, they don't hold up in 25-man content.

The math is really easy to work out, and even easier with Aergis' tank simulator which I believe is linked in the Advanced Training forum somewhere.

Every tank's first priority is survival, no matter what your preferences are towards avoidance or mitigation. More directly, your goal is to survive as long as possible; postponing your death, if you will. There are two basic ends to this. Either your healers run out of mana, or you take more damage than they can heal through. Thus, there are two issues to resolve.

Issue #1: Taking more damage than your healers can heal through. No matter what, unless you have 100% miss, dodge, and parry, the worst case scenario WILL occur at some point. Most (all?) bosses are capable of some pretty crazy burst damage, and if you can't survive it without avoidance, you're basically playing russian roulette with 24 peoples' lives. The way you survive the worst case scenario is by having enough hit points, armor, and block value to reduce it down to a manageable level. While adding more avoidance can certainly make the worst case scenario less likely, there isn't enough avoidance available to make it impossible or even unlikely to the point that it can be ignored. This is why we say "If I'm dying to spike damage, I need more HP/Mitigation."

Issue #2: Healers running out of mana. This is where avoidance comes into play. Due to the nature of endgame healing, if you take any amount of damage, you're going to get healed by everyone in the raid assigned to heal you. That means if you've got 6 people healing you and take 1000 damage, you're probably going to eat about 10 times that amount in healing. However, if you dodge the attack, your healers (well, the good ones) will cancel their heals, and you save somewhere around 5000 raid mana. This is why we say "If I'm dying to healers going OOM, I need more avoidance."

However, it's important to recognize that healer mana can be influenced by many factors outside of what the tank controls themselves. While there are several options to increase the longevity of your healers' mana pool, there is nothing anyone else can do to help you survive random spike damage. There is no awesome buff anyone can give you to make you survive an unexpected 20k burst in under a second if you've only got 14k hit points. That means the tank's responsibility first and foremost is to make sure they can survive the spike damage, which is why we say that hit points, armor, and block value take precedence. If you're dying while your healers have full mana, you need more HP and mitigation. Once you've gotten to the point where you can survive the worst case scenario (preferably with a little wiggle room), then you can start worrying about your healers' mana pools.
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Me, LOL!
Lore
Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:11 pm
It's also worth mentioning that a Paladin tank's avoidance is typically high compared to their HP/Mitigation due to the extra work required to achieve uncrushable, so while your low HP pool will make surviving the worst case scenario difficult, your avoidance will be decent for quite a while. That's another reason we tend to focus on HP and mitigation more than avoidance.
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Me, LOL!
Boruc
Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:00 am
I'm in my crappy spell dmg gear on armory now and we barely did kara no one needed gear there, only me.
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70 Prot paladin - Boulderfist EU! Go for avoidance!

Kvaern
Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:00 am
mkay
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