[5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

yeah, one has to add it manually for now. Theck showed this in his new Blogpost on sacred duty.


now regarding this I did a sim too with this new info.

I took my toon as is: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/z ... m/advanced

I now in options -> version I chose PTR
on TMI Standard Boss I chose. T16Q

I then added the line for EF and changed 2 talents: EF instead of SS, and DivPurp instead of HA:

Code: Select all

#!./simc

paladin="Schroom"
origin="http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/zirkel-des-cenarius/Schroom/advanced"
thumbnail="http://eu.battle.net/static-render/eu/zirkel-des-cenarius/6/63517958-avatar.jpg"
level=90
race=dwarf
role=tank
position=front
professions=blacksmithing=600/mining=600
talents=http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#bZ!101121
glyphs=divine_protection/battle_healer/alabaster_shield/contemplation/righteous_retreat/winged_vengeance
spec=protection

# This default action priority list is automatically created based on your character.
# It is a attempt to provide you with a action list that is both simple and practicable,
# while resulting in a meaningful and good simulation. It may not result in the absolutely highest possible dps.
# Feel free to edit, adapt and improve it to your own needs.
# SimulationCraft is always looking for updates and improvements to the default action lists.

# Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only.

actions.precombat=flask,type=earth
actions.precombat+=/food,type=chun_tian_spring_rolls
actions.precombat+=/blessing_of_kings,if=(!aura.str_agi_int.up)&(aura.mastery.up)
actions.precombat+=/blessing_of_might,if=!aura.mastery.up
actions.precombat+=/seal_of_insight
# Snapshot raid buffed stats before combat begins and pre-potting is done.
actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats

# Executed every time the actor is available.

actions=/auto_attack
actions+=/avenging_wrath
actions+=/holy_avenger,if=talent.holy_avenger.enabled
actions+=/divine_protection
actions+=/eternal_flame,if=talent.eternal_flame.enabled&dot.eternal_flame.remains<2&buff.bastion_of_glory.react>3
actions+=/shield_of_the_righteous,if=(holy_power>=5)|(buff.divine_purpose.react)|(incoming_damage_1500ms>=health.max*0.3)
actions+=/hammer_of_the_righteous,if=target.debuff.weakened_blows.down
actions+=/crusader_strike
actions+=/judgment,if=cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>=0.5
actions+=/avengers_shield,if=cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>=0.5
actions+=/sacred_shield,if=talent.sacred_shield.enabled&((target.dot.sacred_shield.remains<5)&(cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>=0.5))
actions+=/hammer_of_wrath,if=cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>=0.5
actions+=/execution_sentence,if=talent.execution_sentence.enabled&cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>=0.5
actions+=/lights_hammer,if=talent.lights_hammer.enabled&cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>=0.5
actions+=/holy_prism,if=talent.holy_prism.enabled&cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>=0.5
actions+=/holy_wrath,if=cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>=0.5
actions+=/consecration,if=(target.debuff.flying.down&!ticking)&(cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>=0.5)
actions+=/sacred_shield,if=talent.sacred_shield.enabled&cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>=0.5

head=lightning_emperors_helmet,id=96656,upgrade=2,gems=capacitive_primal_320haste_180crit,reforge=hit_mastery
neck=moonjade_necklace,id=96916,upgrade=2,gems=320haste,reforge=dodge_haste
shoulders=lightning_emperors_pauldrons,id=96658,upgrade=2,gems=320haste_320haste,enchant=300sta_100dodge,reforge=mastery_haste
back=tigerclaw_cape,id=98147,upgrade=2,gems=320haste,enchant=200sta,reforge=crit_exp
chest=lightning_emperors_battleplate,id=96654,upgrade=2,gems=320haste_320haste_320haste,enchant=300sta
shirt=undisputed_champions_shirt,id=98082
tabard=tabard_of_the_wildhammer_clan,id=65908
wrists=frozen_warlords_bracers,id=96394,upgrade=2,gems=320haste,enchant=170mastery,reforge=exp_mastery
hands=pathogenic_gauntlets,id=96496,upgrade=2,gems=320haste_320haste_320haste,enchant=170haste,reforge=hit_mastery
waist=cloudbreaker_greatbelt,id=96373,upgrade=2,gems=320haste_320haste_320haste
legs=legplates_of_the_dark_parasite,id=96477,upgrade=2,gems=320haste_160haste_120sta_120str,enchant=430sta_165dodge
feet=haunted_steel_treads,id=94265,upgrade=2,gems=320haste_320haste,enchant=175haste
finger1=band_of_the_scaled_tyrant,id=96500,upgrade=2,gems=320haste,reforge=hit_mastery
finger2=radens_ruinous_ring,id=95022,upgrade=2,gems=320haste,reforge=exp_mastery
trinket1=fabled_feather_of_jikun,id=96470,upgrade=2,reforge=hit_haste
trinket2=spark_of_zandalar,id=96770,upgrade=2
main_hand=qons_flaming_scimitar,id=96534,upgrade=2,gems=320haste_320haste,enchant=dancing_steel,reforge=exp_haste
off_hand=greatshield_of_the_gloaming,id=96512,upgrade=2,gems=320haste,enchant=170parry,reforge=dodge_haste

# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=17664
# gear_stamina=30309
# gear_expertise_rating=5102
# gear_hit_rating=2567
# gear_crit_rating=1099
# gear_haste_rating=20784
# gear_mastery_rating=5852
# gear_armor=58348
# gear_dodge_rating=1090
# gear_parry_rating=170
# meta_gem=capacitive_primal
# tier15_2pc_melee=1
# trinket2=spark_of_zandalar,heroic=1,elite=1
# main_hand=qons_flaming_scimitar,heroic=1,weapon=sword_2.60speed_8674min_16109max,enchant=dancing_steel


the result tho was somewhat shocking...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38739176/simc_report_Schroom_05-09_PTR_EF_noset.html

201.2k TMI seams really bad....

what did I do wrong?

Bad in comparison to what?

You would expect your TMI to go up when comparing T15 to T16 bosses. TMI would also likely increase when comparing 5.3 performance to 5.4 performance, i.e. current SS to nerfed SS.

yeah but 201.2 "K" seems tremendous. as one should aim for about 2k - 10k for the content you progress.

I expected similar results as the ones Theck got for slootbags sims. As my gear is not so different.

201.2 K seems incorrect.

Theck pitted Sloot against the t15H25 boss, not the T16 boss.

Here, I'll run me against the T16Q boss with PTR rules and see how I turn out. I'm using HA instead of DP and I've got boss-fight set to LightMovement. Gear is reasonably standard, ilevel ~540ish, t15 2p.

I've included the line: actions+=/eternal_flame,if=talent.eternal_flame.enabled&(target.dot.eternal_flame.remains<5)&(holy_power>=3)&(buff.bastion_of_glory.react>=3) just before the first ShoR line.

Which means the first priority usage for HoPo will be EF, but it will only cast EF if I've got 3 or more HoPo, less than 5 seconds remaining on my current EF HoT, and 3 or more stacks of BoG.

And the results:

T16Q T15H25
TMI 651K 11.8K
DTPS 139K 113K
EFuptime 97.5% 97.6%
ShoR% 52.1% 52.0%

So there you go. The T16 boss hits about 20% harder than the T15H25 boss and that spikes my TMI from a little under 12K to 651K.

Edit - In case anyone was curious, my average EF cast was for 760K and my average EF tick was for 171K.

Edit2 - Running it again with SS enabled instead of EF gives a TMI of 13M. Million. Which seems high, but its actually only twice what I was getting with EF. So its worse, but not vastly worse. That's kind of a big number, though.

Edit3 - Oh, wait. That's TWENTY times as high, isn't it? That's weird. You know, maybe there is a problem.

wrathblood wrote:Theck pitted Sloot against the t15H25 boss, not the T16 boss.

ok this was the part I oversaw.. but as you said "there might be a problem" because as I said. it nonetheless seems too high...

thou my question.

I've been playing with Simcraft and tinkering with maximum HoT-duration refresh times for EF (only recast if the HoT has less than 10 seconds left vs 9 vs 8, etc all the way down to 0. Which was kind of entertaining. Since you can't have negative time left on the HoT, it would never cast it).

Here's how the table goes (sorry for the ugliness):

Seconds EFs EF% ShoR% dtps hps TMI
1 14.5 93.2 53.4 137691 135486 2625
2 14.8 95 53.2 137454 135476 707
3 15.3 96 52.9 138219 136195 9372
4 15.6 96.8 52.5 138278 136073 8297
5 16.2 97.5 52.1 138495 136317 395
6 16.6 97.7 51.9 139015 136830 477
7 17.3 97.8 51.7 138717 136438 433
8 17.7 97.9 51.4 138837 136561 496
9 18.2 97.9 50.9 139281 136812 527
10 18.7 97.9 50.5 139874 137459 640

I didn't list # of SHoRs because it corresponds perfectly with ShoR%, whereas # of EFs and EF% do not. The EFs and ShoRs trade off evenly for each other.

The spike in TMI at 1 makes sense because you're only refreshing when the duration is under 1 second, so EF will occasionally fall off. But the big spikes at 3 and 4 perplex me.

I simed again btw, this time with a T15-25HM Boss:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38739176/simc_report_Schroom_05-09_PTR_EF_noset_T1525HM.html

TMI went down to 5700. which is more like what I suspected.

allthough the Normaliuzed stat weights bug me...



this would mean I would have to go full out stamina as of 5.4 (for T15-25HM !!!)

and also it means sta>mas>has

I don't get it... this can't be correct... can it?

Mastery over haste is a bit of a surprise. You still want to gem for secondary stats, though, with the double benefit.

true, I mixed up both sims while evaluating my gear... nonetheless as you say mas>has is a surprise. it would absically mean that I would have to swap out my hastegems for mastery gems (considering socketbonuses that are worth it) and reforge to mastery instead of haste.

this would make me lose 23.36% haste and drop me back to 25.54% and make me gain 15.70% mastery up to a total of 38.45%

I'm "OK" with that. nonetheless it seems a bit strange that mastery would overtake haste like that.

edit: ok after resimming with the regemmed/forged toon haste was back to being amazingly strong. I guess this is because of how close I am to haste cap right now. so simc devaluates haste like this.

Well, how much stat is added in the scaling calculation? Because if that amount is greater than the haste you still need to cap, you're definitly right.

Otherwise, you should get the normal Haste value. An idea to check this is to artificially deduce some haste (a bit like you did with your reforge/regem), something like 500 or 1k stat and rerun the check.

Quick addentum, you still using Battle Healer?

in that sim yes.

Battle Healer is the first thing going out the window when 5.4 hits. I'm still not sure about picking up Hand of Sacrifice. I'll probably end up taking it.

Well as someone discussed somewhere else, Hand of Sacrifice glyph is situational and mostly meant for Holy/Ret.
However, it's still less damage to heal for healers, and anyway it's not like there's many valid glyphs for a Prot pala atm.

I'd say it's worth taking it over Battle Healer.

Battle Healer will be a significant personal survivability loss in 5.4, at least in SimC. You're trading a full-sized SoI for 30% of that value by glyphing it, because there's nobody else to heal. Definitely disable GoBH (in fact, it's possible I forgot to do that in Slootbag's profile in the blog post... hm...)

Also note that if you're near 50% haste already, your haste stat weight value will generally be misleading. The sim figures out the value by adding 1000 haste, re-simming, and comparing. So if that takes you over 50% haste, it'll only give you a fraction of the value below that soft-cap.

theckhd wrote:
Also note that if you're near 50% haste already, your haste stat weight value will generally be misleading. The sim figures out the value by adding 1000 haste, re-simming, and comparing. So if that takes you over 50% haste, it'll only give you a fraction of the value below that soft-cap.

that's what I thought. I'm wondering. why doesn't this happen with Hit and Exp cap?

They work in negatives delta: they deduct 1000 for each, measure how much you lose, and implies it´s how much you gain by gaining 1000 rating.

Anyone know how to artificially reduce your Haste to 20250, then? That might be useful to do, if your haste is above 20250, to know how useful Haste is up to the cap. If you want to know how useful Haste is post cal, just bump it up to 21250.

I'm not experienced enough with SimC to know how to do that.

Couldn't you create a -1000 haste shirt on your equipement rundown?
Not only desktop right now, so can't give the code like that, but just adapt another piece of armor into a shirt with -1000 haste

Add on your equipment on SC
shirt=NombreDeLaCamisa,stats=-20250haste_1crit

I added crit too to show if you want to add more stats you need to put _ between them

Does that set haste to 20250, or reduce 20250 haste? If the latter, it's pointless. We don't want to know how good haste is at 0% haste. We want to know how good haste is close to the cap, but still below the cap.

Just do the same but with 1k:
shirt=Leadlinedshirt,stats=-1000haste_1crit

shirt=NombreDeLaCamisa,stats=-20250haste

It reduce 20250 haste from your set.

On the last part of simcraft, you have # Gear Summary
With the numbers of your "real" set.

For example:
# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=18132
# gear_stamina=32001
# gear_expertise_rating=4769
# gear_hit_rating=2928
# gear_crit_rating=919
# gear_haste_rating=18078
...

On your set you have 18078 haste.
You want to test 21250 that will be 50% haste.
Add a shirt with 21250-18078=3172 haste.

If you have haste>21250 then add a shirt with -haste to artificially reduce your Haste to 20250

damn EF produces a lot of aggro wit high vengeance... have to switch off "Righteous Fury" on Garosh later in the fight when the sha adds spawn... no fun :> and I'm kinda scared for the tankswaps...

does the HoT-ticks of EF not scale with vengeance, when EF is put on friendly targets?

in my logs it ticked for exactly 17k on my Tankmate every time.....