Frankly, I think Ret TPS and mitigation while tanking would be inferior to a prot paladin. You lose most the significant holy damage and several mitigation talents.
If a ret paladin spends more than 20 points in prot, she does not get divine storm. So let's assume she must spec 0/20/51 (in order to get the most "tank" talents).
-no less avoidance
-Cannot use improved devotion without losing Sanctified retribution (+2% tps)
-Can maximally use 2/3 Devotion due to point restraints and the necessity of Improved Righteous Fury and Toughness.
-Loss of holy shield
-Loss of Sanctuary
-Loss of Ardent Defender
-Loss of ~12% stamina (more with kings)
-Loss of 6% expertise
-Loss of 3% mitigation
-Loss of 6 spell mitigation
-Loss of Thunderjudge (applicable by others)
-Loss of 30% BV
-Loss of 5% seal and judgment damage (assuming SoV)
-Loss of Sacred Shield efficiency (assuming it works with Touched by the Light)
So what does ret gain over protection? Assume the ret is in prot gear, and compare to the standard 5/60/6:
-8% run speed (7% higher than tuskarr's)
-Disarm duration reduction
-5% critical strike chance (over prot's 6%)
-25% Judgment critical strike chance
-Possibly "50% DR bypass" during a lower-CD avenging wrath.
-A DoT based on crits
-A CC for trash
-2% or 5% DPS (vengeance/crusader vs 1H Spec)
Conclusions for threat:
The ret paladin loses in threat unless the bonus crits and 1/4% DPS, 5% seal/judge damage, 6 expertise, and 30% BV on ShoR. Based on the math given in other threads, this won't happen based on the 6 expertise alone.
In the case of avenging wrath, almost all of a protection paladin's threat bypasses DR since it is holy damage. Thus, having 50% of a ret paladin's damage bypass DR simply puts him closer to par with protection's already significant advantage.
Analysis for damage:
The big issues are:
1. HotR, Avenger's Shield, Holy Shield vs. CS, DS
All protection abilities here are holy damage, and besides gaining +90% threat on use they bypass armor. CS, DS rely on weapon damage which is greatly diminished by using a one handed weapon and lose significant damage use to armor. If you take the Red Sword of Courage, your average CS damage is 252.45 before normalized AP and armor. HotR does 573.6 before normalized AP and ignores armor. DS does 229.5 damage per target before armor/AP. Note that in tank gear, the retribution paladin has no strength or AP advantage over a protection paladin (even imp BoMight, since it can be gained from other sources). Thus, before AP and Armor, HotR does more damage than both combined.
Now let's even pretend DS does similar damage to CS. Essentially, we see HotR is better than CS, so any move that is better than HotR is better than DS. Given that Avenger's Shield can hit for similar amounts as HotR and more glyphed, protection clearly wins.
*CS has +10% dmg talented, but 2pct7 is also +10% to HotR.
Given both rotations will use every GCD, there is no credibility in CS/DS > HotR for that reason. Yes, this doesn't get into fine details. Work those out if you want to dispute me. From an eyeing standpoint, ret loses.
Note: when the number of mobs are greater than 1, hotr clearly wins; with 4 mobs then every hotr,you get 3 strikes. For every two CS, you have 1 DS and 2 hotr. So protection is getting an extra hit every 6 seconds compared to ret.
2. 30% BV, 5% seal/judge DMG, 6 expertise, vs 6% crit, 25% crit strike damage on Judgment, 2 or 5% damage
I could go into depth here, but if one reads on expertise in general and ShoR "percentage of damage done" then it's fairly clear that protection is a fairly clear winner here.
Conclusion: Protection does similar, possibly more DPS while tanking in tank gear
Conclusions on damage taken
Not that there is any question, let's examine this. Given similar gear, a paladin will have say 50% avoidance and ~25% block chance. This means 27.4% of the time the ret paladin will take ~1100 more damage than a protection paladin given holy shield or redoubt are always up and 25% the time a retribution paladin will take ~254 more damage due to lower BV. This means over 100 hits the retribution paladin will take 36490 from every mob on him (that is not fully blocked by a prot paladin). If the ret paladin can full block attacks, this number is reduced to 30140. That's solely from blocking. A protection paladin also has 6% more mitigation from talents which greatly reduces damage intake. On spell casting mobs, the protection paladin takes a clear 3% and 6% less damage from talents.
With a typical four mob trash pull and 2.0 attack speed, this amount of damage can be mitigated every 100 seconds. All numbers also assume the same armor, of which the retribution paladin will surely have less of due to Improved Devotion Aura.
Note: I do not assume sanctuary on a retribution paladin since he's filling a protection paladin spot, essentially.
Overall thoughts
Can a ret tank? Sure. On trash he'll probably need more avid use of CC. He can even tank some of the easier naxx bosses - though patchwerk, sapphiron, and Kel'thuzad would certainly give him issues. Malygos 10 is not probably due to the lower HP, and certainly sartharion with adds up is out of the question since even EH tanks get gibbed on that fight - thought OT roles may work.
Elsie
Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:57 pm

