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Maintankadin

Defense or Dodge - Here are the graphs

harlekin
Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:17 pm
DR affects anything that increases your agility or ratings, but nothing that gives a flat percentage of dodge/parry/miss. The formulas seem to have been pretty well vetted at elitist jerks, with the exception of the coefficient for miss, which is only obtainable through large data sets. I'm working under the assumption that ziggyunderslashone's numbers are close.

As far as class based variation goes, it looks like all three of the plate classes have the same coefficients. The numbers for all of the classes are on the elitist jerks thread, but the theorycrafting is ridiculously dense there.
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Shadow Council - US - Horde
Xandreth (74) - Prot Paladin - MT (going ret until 75)
Tyrenn (80) - Frostfire Mage
Saege (70) - Resto Druid in training
Staub (63) - DK backup tank
Majiben
Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:28 pm
This must hit DKs really hard. Honestly they may not scale well. I could see higher end DKs pushing armor and stamina simply because their parry levels have little to advance due to DR. Even my DK who just got out of the starting area is seeing significant loses in parry from str. Str is not the great survival/threat hybrid it is for warriors and paladins. It's threat with ever decreasing amount of survival for them.
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I made a port to exodar. My friend proceeds to MD Alar onto the AFK tank, and we both run. People ran with us, until the port, and realised it was to exodar. Only three of us went through. Turns out people would rather die than go to exodar. -Infurnus
Majiben
Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:42 pm
That's for only one spec of DK unfortunately.
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I made a port to exodar. My friend proceeds to MD Alar onto the AFK tank, and we both run. People ran with us, until the port, and realised it was to exodar. Only three of us went through. Turns out people would rather die than go to exodar. -Infurnus
dbags
Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:24 am
I'm not sure if or in what capacity this has been addressed, but here goes.

Inspired by this post, I wanted to figure out how dodge and parry compared. It's pretty well known that dodge is superior to parry in terms of raw avoidance, but I hadn't heard where the cutoff was - when parry surpassed dodge due to DR.

So, using harlekin's spreadsheet (which is awesome, btw - I couldn't read through the EJ threads on DR) I made a simple graph comparing the avoidance gained per rating (either dodge or parry) and the total rating (at a static 689 defense rating):



End result: the avoidance from each rating point of parry lags behind that of dodge (well... yeah).

Anyway hope this wasn't a repeat of a previous post, and that it proves mildly useful. Again, ty to harlekin. This was ghastly wrong on my first and second attempts, so I'll be sure to go over numbers again.
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http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stonemaul&n=Bubblefet
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stonemaul&n=Dbags
Janduin
Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:46 am
Does this take into account parry DR as well? I was under the impression that parry was always fail.

Edit: Updated graphs make more sense.
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Petrus
Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:42 am
Yes, it does. As someone collects massive amounts of dodge, eventually they reach a point where getting more dodge doesn't net them as much avoidance as getting more parry if their parry rating is far enough behind their dodge rating. The asymptotic nature of the two graphs shows that, for example, if someone has 300 dodge rating and 0 parry rating (or even 200 dodge rating), they gain more avoidance from those first few points of parry than they do from a bit more dodge.
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Alrinea
Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:52 am
on another note, i recommend using QTOctave (free matlab) with the online matlab documentation for more complex mathematical theories/formulas.
its easy enough to use and rather accurate. but looks like excel is just fine as long as it stays rather simple Wink
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Petrus
Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:11 am
I assume it's calculating the dodge JUST from the rating/agi and without the Anticipation talent and your 5 % base dodge. Thus, you have 26.44% instead of 16.44%, and after DR you lose about 3.5% of it down to 22.96%.
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harlekin
Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:04 am
That is correct. Your character sheet will show higher numbers because of base and talented sources, which are not subject to DR. I could morph the spreadsheet into a super-calculator, but my initial intent was just to figure out the interplay between dodge and defense.

It may be worth my while to re-evaluate parry, but I think for the time being, the parry gained from defense rating may push parry past the useful DR point. I also think that the gear levels that we currently have access to limit our scaling quite a bit. Once we reach uncrittable, there doesn't appear to all that much headroom to play with.
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Shadow Council - US - Horde
Xandreth (74) - Prot Paladin - MT (going ret until 75)
Tyrenn (80) - Frostfire Mage
Saege (70) - Resto Druid in training
Staub (63) - DK backup tank
harlekin
Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:02 am
Yeah, that doesn't seem right to me either. You're using 49 parry rating per 1% versus 39 for dodge, no? Also, for the DR calculation, Cd is 88, Cp is 47. Remember that for 689 defense rating you already have 5.6% parry (5.2% after DR).

Throwing some numbers around in my spreadsheet, it looks like for 50 parry rating to be equal to 50 dodge rating you need somewhere around 700 dodge rating. Curiously, that happens to be rather close to the point where dodge rating and defense rating are balanced (at uncrittable). I'll try to work out where the equilibrium is when I have a bit of time.
_________________
Shadow Council - US - Horde
Xandreth (74) - Prot Paladin - MT (going ret until 75)
Tyrenn (80) - Frostfire Mage
Saege (70) - Resto Druid in training
Staub (63) - DK backup tank