3.2 Frequently Argued Questions. AKA: Advanced tanking FAQ.

Rainge wrote:I don't recall seeing this answered yet, but how much will the new SoV extra damage proc change the value of hit and expertise for us?

As you've probably noticed from reading Theck's updates, the answer is "They're good, but Strength and Block Value are still much better TPS"

My recollection is that the *order* of "stats by TPS" remains the same, as does the approximate gaps. BV is a lot closer to Strength (until you hit the soft/hard cap). They keep fiddling with the proc-mechanic for SoV, but Expertise is a little more valuable (as is crit - still a terrible stat for us, but at least raid-buffs will help our TPS more in 3.2). I don't worry too much about the exact values during PTR, because I know Theck will cover it and Blizzard fiddle with things till that last minute. I also worry more about mitigation, utility and tanking mechanics than TPS. On that front, 3.2 is amazing - tankadins are badly overpowered in 3.2, and we'll have to be nerfed at some point. New AD is ridiculous.

I'm a moderately hard-core tank - we have 3-ish hard modes left (then Algernon and YS-with-less-than-3)

• General - current target & we're close - Animus to about 40% with General under 20% for P2 was best last night
• Freya+3 (have done +2)
• Mimiron (haven't tried yet)

From that perspective, I value +hit a lot more highly that its threat rating would warrant. Several Ulduar hard-modes require flawless tank-swaps or taunt pickup. I try very hard to run with RD hit-capped (with the glyph). Most annoying wipe ever was being 4 hit rating short of the +hit cap (0.11% miss) and having taunt resist while trying Steelbreaker. Very much looking forward to the glyph being fixed to work with both taunts.

I'd just like to query your talent recommendations. With regard to threat, you and Theck don't match up exactly (e.g. both of Theck's best TPS builds include Reckoning).

Panzerdin wrote:I'd just like to query your talent recommendations. With regard to threat, you and Theck don't match up exactly (e.g. both of Theck's best TPS builds include Reckoning).

That's because you need to take three points somewhere in order to move farther down in the prot tree. Reckoning is the only DPS/TPS talent to choose from there, so of course it'll be in the highest TPS builds. It's still a good deal lower than Conviction, Crusade, SotP, etc but there's simply no TPS alternative.

/facepalm

I suppose I should have wondered why the lowest DPS/TPS talent was in all the best builds.

Panzerdin wrote:/facepalm

I suppose I should have wondered why the lowest DPS/TPS talent was in all the best builds.

Yeah, those builds are ones where you swap DS/DG for 3/5 Reckoning. It's basically a free 90 threat as far as the TPS simulations go, because they're fairly one-dimensional. In the real world, it's a choice between 90 threat and useful utility talents.


That being said, I would still argue this section needs to be revised:

Knaughty wrote:Choices:
• There's no full-time mitigation talents.
• The only accessible "tanking CD" talent is Improved Lay On Hands.
• Compelling utility talents are thin on the ground.
• There are DPS/TPS talents in Ret, or SotP in Holy.

....

Second: Rank TPS Options: SotP > Conviction (only if already unlocked by utility talents) > Reckoning

SotP and Crusade are same TPS, but Crusade requires massive amounts of filler to reach, and thus, you ignore Crusade. Grab SotP, if you already had a pile of points in Ret grab Conviction, otherwise put spare points in Reckoning. Personally, I'd get utility talents like DG, Vindication and PoJ before I picked up more TPS talents - we already have excellent TPS.

It is worth noting that Imp LoH is a powerful CD - over 20% physical mitigation. 11 min CD is painful, but vs big hits, it is almost as good as Shield Wall.

If you want the CD? Spec 12/53/6 - Imp LoH is good.

Yes, Crusade requires massive amounts of filler to reach. However, on every boss in AC, Crusade is twice as effective as SotP, making the deep Crusade builds superior for threat in AC. In addition, Vindication is now a compelling utility talent (or full-time mitigation, take your pick), and to get Vindication you need to spend those same 4 filler points you'd need for Conviction/Crusade.

If the AC bosses were all generic mobs, I'd probably go 4/53/14 to pick up Vindication and PoJ, but since they're Undead I expect 0/53/18 to remain the most common spec. It gives you a lot of flexibility as well, since the entire third tier of Ret is good now (Vindication for mitigation, PoJ for mobility, Conviction for threat).

Knaughty wrote:I value +hit a lot more highly that its threat rating would warrant.

I'm in the same boat, I think. My average threat is almost never a problem, but nothing irritates me more than taunting and then whiffing a ShoR. There's a Monarch Crab gemmed for hit and a Ruby Hare gemmed for expertise among the random "this might be useful" crap in my bags.

I'd pretty much always pick DG/DS over 3/5 Reck, but the 3/5 reck builds are higher TPS. Raidwall and SS are better than 90 TPS.

Will look at re-doing the other sections that need an update on Sunday. Main update will be to make clear at 4/53/14 is best for Ulduar and 53/18 probably best for CC.

I'll probably end up with 4/5 SotP for 3.2 release, then respec in six weeks, once CC hard modes become available.

Given the whole "1 boss per week" thing in CC, we'll probably spend large chunks of time trying to get last few Ulduar hard-modes for the first 6 weeks of the 3.2 release.

I'm currently running with 2/2 SA due to working on General Vezaxx hard mode, and goddamn it makes it easy to keep a full mana bar. Not required (other than GV-hard) but it does let you faceroll 969 when you're feeling lazy.

Re the "hit" thing - more reliable hit and smoother threat over first couple of GCDs beats a little extra TPS.

I really only spec into DG/DS for the longer duration of SS... I hardly ever raidwall when I'm tanking in any situation.