3.2 Frequently Argued Questions. AKA: Advanced tanking FAQ.

I seemingly always run with warriors though, and I know they don't stack.
Again I'm really wondering here before I respec in 1-2 days.

If you can trust your warriors to:
1) Always be in your raids
2) Not mind keeping it up
3) Stay alive the entire encounter
4) Always attack what you're tanking
Then no, you don't need JotJ.

Edit: I fail at lists.

With dual spec, not taking JotJ pretty much guarantees you won't ever be grabbing a MT role. DPS warriors don't have it fully talented, and that leaves you to basically only be useful on fights where you must swap tanks alot, so another tank is attacking your target as well.

Though at the same time this could be a good fit for you. If you are always the "OT", dropping JotJ wouldn't be terrible in every situation. But at the same time the OT can take significant damage as well with no one else to apply the debuff on what they are tanking, and not having JotJ could hurt.

Regarding talent specs -

Is it absolutely necessary to spec into Judgements of the Just and Touched by the Light?

So far - i feel these are the necessary talents - either in their abilities or to get to the next tier -http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAbuMGsIzfZxo

I feel like I'd rather put 2 points into Divinity to get to 50 and then use the rest of my talent points in ret or to get the 5/5 Seals of the Pure.

I just don't understand why anyone would care about 30% more spellpower and more crit heals if youre tanking a majority of the time, and I dont see how 1 more second of judgement of justice and reduced melee swing speed is useful in PvE. I thought we wanted quick hitting mobs.

Am I missing something?

Leanad wrote:Am I missing something?

These two talents aren't fluff, they're both strong boosts to the fundamentals of your role as a tank:

1) Hold aggro
2) Stay Alive

Touched By The Light (30% spellpower) helps you do 1. Judgements of the Just (reduces boss's melee attack speed by 20%) helps you do 2.

It's worth noting that TbtL is better threat per talent point than anything you can pick up in Ret. And there are a number of threads discussing why JotJ is one of our best talents for reducing incoming damage.

So these two talents aren't filler, nor are they "if you feel like it" talents. They directly improve your ability to do your job, and they're two of the best talents that do so. Someone looking at your armory (for example, checking you out before inviting you to a pug) will notice this, and if you don't have these talents they probably won't invite you. And they'd be perfectly justified too; I wouldn't trust a tank that skips two of the absolute best tanking talents either.

Leanad wrote:I thought we wanted quick hitting mobs.

That was once the mentality when our threat was mostly tied to reactive holy damage. Our threat has been shifted to the pro-active side and almost every ability we have is amplified by both AP and SP. 30% SP from stamina (a stat we already want to stack) is a hefty increase to our threat generation under the new system.

-Dronimur

Thanks both of you.

I'm a believer now.

Varmin wrote:20% less damage?

16.6% actually, providing that the boss hits once every 2.0 seconds. 20% slower would mean he hits once every 2.4 seconds. So over the course of a minute, rather than 30 times, he would only hit 25 times, reducing the number of hits (and thus damage) by 1/6 or 16.667%

Just a quick status post: Don't expect me to update the first page this week - we're still racing for the server first Yogg-Saron, and thus I'm a little busy

On that note: Mimiron is the first hard boss in the instance. Well.. pre-nerf Ignis was hard, current Ignis is a joke

I really don't understand why they're nerfing the instance after one week, when people are killing the un-nerfed bosses.

Knaughty wrote:Just a quick status post: Don't expect me to update the first page this week - we're still racing for the server first Yogg-Saron, and thus I'm a little busy

On that note: Mimiron is the first hard boss in the instance. Well.. pre-nerf Ignis was hard, current Ignis is a joke

I really don't understand why they're nerfing the instance after one week, when people are killing the un-nerfed bosses.

I envy you for not having a raid full of stupid.

Torquemada wrote:I envy you for not having a raid full of stupid.

Meh, we got stuck on General in the end. Got him to 50% and have the fight under control, just ran out of time to kill him. Some elements are quite sketchy with Aussie ping/latency. Main one is he has a tendency to jerk out of melee range at the end of the kite phases, and our interrupters then miss a kick/shock/whatever. Taking an ele shaman this week, hopefully.

YS server first still open. Slow server, I guess.

Knaughty wrote:Just a quick status post: Don't expect me to update the first page this week - we're still racing for the server first Yogg-Saron, and thus I'm a little busy

On that note: Mimiron is the first hard boss in the instance. Well.. pre-nerf Ignis was hard, current Ignis is a joke

I really don't understand why they're nerfing the instance after one week, when people are killing the un-nerfed bosses.

Because charity epics are the norm, and every little 12 year old and whatever other retards exist want to be able to down every content. You maybe have seen the progression to this since TBC was released (I remember working my ass off for each individual purple in vanilla!).

Nerfing raid bosses barely a week after introducing them, where most guilds haven't even REACHED them yet, makes me a sad panda.

Knaughty wrote:Meh, we got stuck on General in the end. Got him to 50% and have the fight under control, just ran out of time to kill him. Some elements are quite sketchy with Aussie ping/latency. Main one is he has a tendency to jerk out of melee range at the end of the kite phases, and our interrupters then miss a kick/shock/whatever. Taking an ele shaman this week, hopefully.

YS server first still open. Slow server, I guess.

Heh, I'm glad my raids are interrupt heavy =P
I swear Yogg was nerfed though, he was much easier to kill this week, p1 might be hard with aussie ping =P

badgermonkey wrote:Because charity epics are the norm, and every little 12 year old and whatever other retards exist want to be able to down every content. You maybe have seen the progression to this since TBC was released (I remember working my ass off for each individual purple in vanilla!).

Nerfing raid bosses barely a week after introducing them, where most guilds haven't even REACHED them yet, makes me a sad panda.

I think the point is that most guilds haven't reached them yet.
They want most guilds to be able to kill Yogg. They want the hard modes to be the challenging parts.

Varmin wrote:

badgermonkey wrote:Because charity epics are the norm, and every little 12 year old and whatever other retards exist want to be able to down every content. You maybe have seen the progression to this since TBC was released (I remember working my ass off for each individual purple in vanilla!).

Nerfing raid bosses barely a week after introducing them, where most guilds haven't even REACHED them yet, makes me a sad panda.

I think the point is that most guilds haven't reached them yet.
They want most guilds to be able to kill Yogg. They want the hard modes to be the challenging parts.

Yeah, but it's been what... 1 or 2 weeks? When they first released Naxx, I don't remember everyone powering through it in that time.

Content should take time to work through. I reckon we'll see more nerfs to raid bosses before Summer comes.