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Maintankadin

Is it possible to be uncrittable and uncrushab without 490d?

Agravaine
Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:34 pm
Well, let me expand:

(1) you can easily be uncrushable and uncrittable with less than 490 defense -- just stack some resilience.

(2) You can with much more difficulty push crits and crushes off the combat table with more dodge, parry, and block rating. If you rely on Holy Shield to get you over 102.4%, then you will occasionally be crit because some things will sneak through your holy shield cooldown

(3) you can be "passively uncrushable" by stacking even more block rating. here, it wouldn't matter whether you had Holy Shield up, beacuse you'd have 45% block rating (or something like that) without Holy Shield. As a Paladin, you'll be hitting holy shield anyway for the threat.

W/R/T (2) and (3) I believe that it is the case that you can't be crit when shield block fills up the rest of the lvl 73 combat table. So, you wouldn't have to have 490 defense.

But, as a practical matter to achieve state (2) or (3), you are going to have 490+ defense -- its just the way things are itemized.

On a personal note, I haven't been crit in my tank gear for like a year of recap watching, and I average about 1 crush per night of raiding.
Aarek
Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:52 pm
Always remember, you can't block or parry while stunned so if you are thinking of pushing crits off the table that way, if you do get stunned or for some reason the mob moves out of your frontal arc you can and probably will get crit without high enough defense and/or resilience. Defense is cheap and easy to find and some of our better tanking weapons (the arena maces) all have a decent chunk of resilience, its always better to be passively crit immune the actively.
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2ndNin
Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:03 am
Narf, while not 100% guranteed (since we haven't seen the source) the 1 table theory of hits holds true in virtually all observed cases, its something like:

Miss:
Dodge:
Parry:
Block:
Crit:
Crush
Hit

PVP modifies this slightly with the potential for blocked crits, crits that miss etc so appears to be multiple tables (similar to the spell rolls which seem to have a hit roll and a crit roll). However the above table holds mostly true for pve (though whether the discrepencies are due to specific fight mechanics or a flaw in the theory is unknown without actually seeing the code - it may in fact be a table with a bug which we have attributed to a fight mechanic).

So miss / dodge / parry are all full avoidance, you take no damage if the roll lands in these. Block is mitigation, it reduces your damage taken but you still take damage (though in PVE blocks negate crits, presumably because 40mobs + 25 raiders would be horrifically time consuming to do multiple rolls for especially with aoe / multi target effects). Crit can be reduced in 3 ways, reduce the % of the table to 0, push the crit band off the table, reduce the damage from a crit to 0%, the latter is practically impossible (need resiliance to mitigate a crit rating of 50%, at which point you are fip crit immune anyway), the former is possible with defense or resilience and the middle option is doable with a combination of mitigation and avoidance (thus the 102.4% number pushing both crits and crushes off the table).
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Kelben
Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:05 am
Stuns was also another issue I failed to think of.

But to point out the issue with being crushed to forgetting HS. It happened for me when I was OTing Gruul. The MT died( no idea why), and I quickly did my best to grab agro and keep gruul on me, I was successful till he did a shatter after a minute or two. After the shatter broke I was running back to Gruul, but was not fast enough to hit HS, next thing I knew I was smashed like pancakes. I check Grim Reaper and it was a C for 11K, which really sucked since I prob. forgot to pop a healthstone and didn't think much of him hitting that hard.

For all intensive purposes of this discussion 490D is imperative. If you are stunned and have 490D you can not be critted on.

But I still like to think that if my total avoidance was above total avoidance of a 490D set, I could remain uncrittable, but I would dodge/parry less but would block more.

This could be proved wrong if there was a safe way to test it, ie a private server.
Kelben
Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:32 am
:/ I keep forgetting that there will always be a latency issue with pressing a key and the message being sent to the server, and what not. You are right there is no need for testing of it.
Maranus
Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:08 pm
HEY GUYS
ATTACK TABLE

LOL TWO PAGE THREAD

BLOCK PUSHS CRIT OFF THE TABLE.
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You know you want it! Ooorah /dance