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Frickit
Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:17 am
any tank that taunts off of another tank for any reason other than the original tank would have died, is a scumbag.
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The Psychology of a Tank
Lexica
Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:08 am
There are two uses for Blessing of Protection - nab mages who use Pyroblast as a method of "helping you pull" and Warriors who taunt mobs off you for no reason.
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Kellel
Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:43 am
What a fantastic thread. It took me a while to catch up on all the posts, but doing so has made me want to share my experience.
My name is Kellel and I am a Tankadin.
I love my pally. I enjoy playing my pally. I enjoy doing the same instances over and over with my pally because the truth is, the aspects of the game that keep me coming back for more are the elements of team work, progression and the sense of accomplishment (especially when undergeared AND triumphant).
My experience started with a friend of mine bragging about his prot pally, and me struggling to level my lvl 30 retadin. He gave me a few tips and the game got exponetially easier. I am in a guild with about a dozen real life friends, all very casual gamers, all with multiple 70's .. but virtually zero experience in the lvl 70 instances and beyond.
Once i hit lvl 50 I started really tanking. Pug after Pug .. I slowly learned what makes a good tank, and what makes a good group. By the time I entered the outlands I was a pretty viable tank ... although my guild would often ignore me. I found out later that when we did instances they thought I was a little bossy. Once I was aware of this, I started using a little more diplomacy and things started to open up for us.
Being driven by my class and my job, I've spent countless hours and gold tuning my gear and my technique (these are what I consider attributes that make a good tank, not character class .. or gear). Eventually we started instancing like crazy because the guild finally had ... not just a character that could tank, but a player that ENJOYED tanking and took it seriously. We started cutting through lvl 70 instances like butter. 7 or 8 guild members quickly got characters to lvl 70 along with all the rep rewards they could hope for. Players that were on the virge of a burnout were now loving their toons again (even my wife was constantly grouping up with us). Even while pugging I had a growing list of healers on my friends list that would always msg me when I logged on. Not because I was a pally tank, but because they liked my style and attitude.
Eventually the guild drama started. The guild actually had 2 different tank characters that had been traded around ... lol no one liked to tank! I was the only active tank, however I was spending all my time helping their toons progress, and not enough time on my own. I had reached uncrushable with my entry level gear and wanted to move to 10 man raids. There was very little I could continue doing without moving on.
Face with the possibility of the only active tank in the guild moving on and the realization that it would be the end of the 5 man roll we were on) they decided to just give Kara a whirl. We expected to go down in flames on the Moroes encounter (anyone that looked at our gear would have laughed us out of the instance). Fortunately we had a GM that was familiar with the instance and a raid full of mature players that didn't want to waste anyone's time. Not only did we surprise ourselves by one shotting bosses all the way to the opera event (where we nailed R&J on the second attempt), we manage to make it all the way to Shade before conceding we did not have enough dps
. I would consider this a triumph for any raid where 8/10 had never even seen the inside of Kara .
Anyway, I digress.
Along the way I have played with all kinds of players and had all kinds of experiences. I've played with T6 geared warriors and feral druids alike, and one thing holds true, if you're a dick ... I don't care what class you are, what gear you're wearing or which bosses you've downed, you suck and I don't want to play with you.
After all, each class has different tools to do the same job. I'm willing to bet that very few players have progressed through ALL the content, playing a warrior, pally AND druid themselves through all of it. Of course people are going to argue their class is better because that's the one that has given them success.
A good tank is one that has respect for his/her party and realizes that they are not the only one playing the game. A good tank takes responsibility for their own fuck ups, learns from their mistakes, and doesn't like to waste everyone's time (see "respect for his/her party"). Everything else falls into these categories.
A good tank will research their class and know what stats/gear they need. Why bother going in when even the best healer can't keep you up? you'll just end up wasting everyone's time.
A good tank will always /w the healer with compliments before claiming that a triumph was BECAUSE HE'S SO LEET. A good healer will make you look like a star while a bad one will make you look incompetent. Always show your healers some love.
A good tank will be able to adapt to whatever situation arises. Dropped aggro tables, bad pulls, lousy CC, assholes in your pug are all part of the game. Whatever happens ... a good tank will at least try to deal with it.
A good tank will always follow orders. My favorite saying is "No matter how good you think you are, there is always someone better." In this case, no matter how well you know a boss or pull or instance, chances are there is someone that has been there more than you and knows it better. Always be open to suggestion.
A good tank keeps a good pace through an instance that works for the GROUP and not just for him/her. Again, you are driving everyone's experience here.
A good tank realizes that he cannot solo a 10 or 25 man raid (exceptions may be coming lol) for now, he may be the guy standing in front of Illidan ... but he is still part of a team.
So having said that, you'll notice my opinions on what makes a good tank having nothing to do with damage mitigation, abilities, class specifics or stats lol. I'm sure any GM out there will tell you that they look for THESE traits first ... THEN pull up your armory page lol (if they don't, the guild is doomed to consume itself with guild drama lol...)
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My name is Kellel and I am a Tankadin.
I love my pally. I enjoy playing my pally. I enjoy doing the same instances over and over with my pally because the truth is, the aspects of the game that keep me coming back for more are the elements of team work, progression and the sense of accomplishment (especially when undergeared AND triumphant).
My experience started with a friend of mine bragging about his prot pally, and me struggling to level my lvl 30 retadin. He gave me a few tips and the game got exponetially easier. I am in a guild with about a dozen real life friends, all very casual gamers, all with multiple 70's .. but virtually zero experience in the lvl 70 instances and beyond.
Once i hit lvl 50 I started really tanking. Pug after Pug .. I slowly learned what makes a good tank, and what makes a good group. By the time I entered the outlands I was a pretty viable tank ... although my guild would often ignore me. I found out later that when we did instances they thought I was a little bossy. Once I was aware of this, I started using a little more diplomacy and things started to open up for us.
Being driven by my class and my job, I've spent countless hours and gold tuning my gear and my technique (these are what I consider attributes that make a good tank, not character class .. or gear). Eventually we started instancing like crazy because the guild finally had ... not just a character that could tank, but a player that ENJOYED tanking and took it seriously. We started cutting through lvl 70 instances like butter. 7 or 8 guild members quickly got characters to lvl 70 along with all the rep rewards they could hope for. Players that were on the virge of a burnout were now loving their toons again (even my wife was constantly grouping up with us). Even while pugging I had a growing list of healers on my friends list that would always msg me when I logged on. Not because I was a pally tank, but because they liked my style and attitude.
Eventually the guild drama started. The guild actually had 2 different tank characters that had been traded around ... lol no one liked to tank! I was the only active tank, however I was spending all my time helping their toons progress, and not enough time on my own. I had reached uncrushable with my entry level gear and wanted to move to 10 man raids. There was very little I could continue doing without moving on.
Face with the possibility of the only active tank in the guild moving on and the realization that it would be the end of the 5 man roll we were on) they decided to just give Kara a whirl. We expected to go down in flames on the Moroes encounter (anyone that looked at our gear would have laughed us out of the instance). Fortunately we had a GM that was familiar with the instance and a raid full of mature players that didn't want to waste anyone's time. Not only did we surprise ourselves by one shotting bosses all the way to the opera event (where we nailed R&J on the second attempt), we manage to make it all the way to Shade before conceding we did not have enough dps
. I would consider this a triumph for any raid where 8/10 had never even seen the inside of Kara .
Anyway, I digress.
Along the way I have played with all kinds of players and had all kinds of experiences. I've played with T6 geared warriors and feral druids alike, and one thing holds true, if you're a dick ... I don't care what class you are, what gear you're wearing or which bosses you've downed, you suck and I don't want to play with you.
After all, each class has different tools to do the same job. I'm willing to bet that very few players have progressed through ALL the content, playing a warrior, pally AND druid themselves through all of it. Of course people are going to argue their class is better because that's the one that has given them success.
A good tank is one that has respect for his/her party and realizes that they are not the only one playing the game. A good tank takes responsibility for their own fuck ups, learns from their mistakes, and doesn't like to waste everyone's time (see "respect for his/her party"). Everything else falls into these categories.
A good tank will research their class and know what stats/gear they need. Why bother going in when even the best healer can't keep you up? you'll just end up wasting everyone's time.
A good tank will always /w the healer with compliments before claiming that a triumph was BECAUSE HE'S SO LEET. A good healer will make you look like a star while a bad one will make you look incompetent. Always show your healers some love.
A good tank will be able to adapt to whatever situation arises. Dropped aggro tables, bad pulls, lousy CC, assholes in your pug are all part of the game. Whatever happens ... a good tank will at least try to deal with it.
A good tank will always follow orders. My favorite saying is "No matter how good you think you are, there is always someone better." In this case, no matter how well you know a boss or pull or instance, chances are there is someone that has been there more than you and knows it better. Always be open to suggestion.
A good tank keeps a good pace through an instance that works for the GROUP and not just for him/her. Again, you are driving everyone's experience here.
A good tank realizes that he cannot solo a 10 or 25 man raid (exceptions may be coming lol) for now, he may be the guy standing in front of Illidan ... but he is still part of a team.
So having said that, you'll notice my opinions on what makes a good tank having nothing to do with damage mitigation, abilities, class specifics or stats lol. I'm sure any GM out there will tell you that they look for THESE traits first ... THEN pull up your armory page lol (if they don't, the guild is doomed to consume itself with guild drama lol...)
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Frickit
Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:03 am
Sorry but there are just too many people who dont know what they're doing. A friend makes a poor leader and vice versa. Respect is earned not blindly given out. Im a firm believer in kicking people after one or two warnings. Kicking them from the group or the guild. Ive wasted far too much time on slackers who dont listen and dont ever get "it".
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vschiano2008
Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:13 am
I've played with the dumbass warriors who want to be the Macho MT! and think they are better than everyone
The warriors that always taunt shit off me.. assign themselves 2 or 3 tank marks on trash and tell me to dps or heal, always want to tank the bosses in ZA.. etc.
I've come up with a solution.
1) 3.0 = Amazing threat. Let them taunt it. Don't taunt it back- you don't have to, after there taunt runs out, watch it come right back to ya. Call them out over vent. Laugh and say, "Wow, nice how you taunt it off.. but it likes me and came right back i guess. Are you having threat generation issues?"
2) Run into the entire group before he can finish marking. Consecrate and GG. i wouldnt recommend this for some BT trash though..
3) Make friends with a high dps'er. One that doesnt like the "MT" either. Tell him to watch for when he taunts, blow all their CD's and pull of the tank, and then they can call him out over vent- "I didn't have a problem DPS'ing when (insert pally tank here) was tanking, let them do it."
4) Be the raid leader. Tell the warrior to stop being a dumbass. Have the Druid/Paladin tank all the bosses and tell the warrior to dps, or just hearth out and you'll bring in some real dps.
Note- These are just methods to make a fool out of stupid people. If the problem persists, i'd find a new guild. That's what i plan on doing with this new guild i joined, (new server, my gf's guild) honestly- all of they tanks think they are superior to one another. Hence, they cant get past Bloodboil. Tanks have to work together ^^. Also, tanks have to realize their uses- some bosses aren't ideal for a pally to tank, so help out and heal. For the bosses that ARE easily tanked by a paladin- warriors and druids will put out more dps- even offspecced, so they should be doing so and helping the fight go quicker and smoother.
I'm a team player.. I stopped playing my paladin for 3 months for BT progression- because my guild really needed holy priests, and i had one. I missed out on all the phat lewts on my pally, no T6 on him, but hey, i helped my guild start out in Hyjal and down Illidan.
The warriors that always taunt shit off me.. assign themselves 2 or 3 tank marks on trash and tell me to dps or heal, always want to tank the bosses in ZA.. etc.
I've come up with a solution.
1) 3.0 = Amazing threat. Let them taunt it. Don't taunt it back- you don't have to, after there taunt runs out, watch it come right back to ya. Call them out over vent. Laugh and say, "Wow, nice how you taunt it off.. but it likes me and came right back i guess. Are you having threat generation issues?"
2) Run into the entire group before he can finish marking. Consecrate and GG. i wouldnt recommend this for some BT trash though..
3) Make friends with a high dps'er. One that doesnt like the "MT" either. Tell him to watch for when he taunts, blow all their CD's and pull of the tank, and then they can call him out over vent- "I didn't have a problem DPS'ing when (insert pally tank here) was tanking, let them do it."
4) Be the raid leader. Tell the warrior to stop being a dumbass. Have the Druid/Paladin tank all the bosses and tell the warrior to dps, or just hearth out and you'll bring in some real dps.
Note- These are just methods to make a fool out of stupid people. If the problem persists, i'd find a new guild. That's what i plan on doing with this new guild i joined, (new server, my gf's guild) honestly- all of they tanks think they are superior to one another. Hence, they cant get past Bloodboil. Tanks have to work together ^^. Also, tanks have to realize their uses- some bosses aren't ideal for a pally to tank, so help out and heal. For the bosses that ARE easily tanked by a paladin- warriors and druids will put out more dps- even offspecced, so they should be doing so and helping the fight go quicker and smoother.
I'm a team player.. I stopped playing my paladin for 3 months for BT progression- because my guild really needed holy priests, and i had one. I missed out on all the phat lewts on my pally, no T6 on him, but hey, i helped my guild start out in Hyjal and down Illidan.