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Maintankadin

Seal of Blood "Tanking" - maths errors?

Dorvan
Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:35 pm
No it's not a coding limitation, Blizzard didn't add it until 2.2 (which was cool when it was announced, until we actually saw how much it hit for).

http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_2.2.0

Seal of Vengeance duration increased to 15 seconds. In addition, when Seal of Vengeance strikes a target that already has 5 applications you will cause instant Holy damage.
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WHAT WOULD BEST DESCRIBE YOUR PERSONALITY?
Moonlight Sonata Techno Remix
Dorvan
Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:45 pm
As vaguely recall, it may have been an attempt to address the fact that SoV didn't scale with haste in general/reckoning in particular. Ultimately, "wtf?" was the reaction it mostly got, and SoR remained the most popular tanking seal with most Tankadins.

Today's Tankadin History lesson has been brought to you by Grampa Dorv, the letter Q, and the number 6.
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WHAT WOULD BEST DESCRIBE YOUR PERSONALITY?
Moonlight Sonata Techno Remix
Majiben
Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:43 am
Here's the nice thing about comparing SotP + SoV auto attack dps versus Conviction + SoB auto attack dps: They stay the same. The SoV's glyph means that 5% (2.5% less parries and dodges) more hits connect for X damage so a 5X increase in white dps. Conviction causes 5% more hit to connect for double damage so 10X damage but they would have already hit for 5X so a 5X increase in white dps.
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Salamandra
Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:28 am
A 2.5% reduction in dodges and parries causes 5% more of your attacks to land, which corresponds to more than a 5% increase in damage, since assuming you land 90% before and 95% after, it's a 5.56% increase in white damage.

Critting 5% more, assuming you have more than 0% crit before, corresponds to less than a 5% increase in white damage. If you crit 20% of the time before, and 25% after, it's a 4.17% increase in white dps.
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Wolvar
Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:34 am
Only if you assume zero expertise before the SOV glyph. I'd imagine most tanks are fairly close to the soft cap for expertise in which case it'd be 2.5% more attacks landed.
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Majiben
Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:48 am
Salamandra, you're incorrect in your assement.

Let's use this hypothetical combat table for a second.

Wolvar
Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:03 am
I didn't say past it, I said fairly close to it. You'd have to intentially try not to get expertise once you start doing 25 mans. Obviously it depends on your gear level but blanket statements are fail.
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Salamandra
Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:12 am
Well, I was correct with regards to expertise, just the same thing apparently applies to crit too.

Also, the math would be more readable with brackets.
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Jonesy
Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:18 am
My general criticism of this analysis is that it's presented as SoB vs. SoV, whereas in fact the underlying question (I believe) is more about looking for a maximum threat setup. So a couple of specific points I have with the OP:

The gear set presented is *extremely* long on mitigation and short on threat. I understand that fits the OP's biases, but in an analysis looking at maximising SoB it makes sense to look at using more threat-oriented tank gear. At the very least, not capping hit and dodge-capping expertise is going to lead to a refutable conclusion. Anyone who's willing to actively damage themselves while tanking is going to be happy to lose a little mitigation to get some threat stats.

Second is the spec; again, I think using something reminiscent of the old Imp SA build (0/51/20) is going to be the preferred SoB spec. (Some of the points there are arguable, specifically lack of AD, DG, GbtL. On the other hand we have no quantifiable data for *either* threat or mitigation talents so one has to start somewhere.)

I have no love for SoB, but I'd been intending to make a threat spreadsheet (more accurately, a prot DPS spreadsheet) anyway, so this might spur me on to it.
Candiru
Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:16 am
One thing about SoB:

I have been trying recently is using SoB during Bloodlust and execute. While you are inside a bloodlust your GCD for spells is reduced, so you can re-seal Blood without loosing much (any?) time on your rotation. While under the effects of blood you are generating your SoV threat and your Bloodlust-boosted SoB threat. Before SoV runs out you can re-seal SoV, then SoB again after (you are still in bloodlust so its quick.)

I started doing this on Sarth25m since the first drake is burnt down in a bloodlust, and my threat doesn't scale with haste unless I use SoB. it *seemed* to be higher threat for me, but I haven't done the maths yet on it. I have ~7% hit on gear and Broken Promise so SoB performs well.

It also seems to me to be worth doing this (or use SoR if you prefer) during the last few seconds of a boss kill, if enrage timer is close then having SoV ticking while you swing away with a damage seal will increase your DPS. If you do it outside bloodlust though, the DPS loss from a GCD might be less than you gain. You can always drop out HolyShield though, if DPS is your main priority due to enrage timer.

This isn't necessarily a good idea, I'm just brainstorming here Smile

The SoB in Bloodlust seems to be good though.
Majiben
Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:19 am
If you use AW during a BL you should get fairly good threat scaling. Here's hoping they don't leave the AW & DP situation screwed up. During that time may be the only time SoB use is profitable.
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