The Psychology of a Tank

Not all tanks are alpha-male (female). Many try to act this way but I see more people giving up tanking or getting burnt out just after one run. I saw a druid leaving Magister Terrace after first wipe, so I had to go back to Ironforge, respec and finish this stuff...I can no longer let another people tank and let him decide of my fun. Our officer warrior got fed up after one run of mech. Didn't tell him I ran it other and other along Arcatraz to get exalted.

Burn out happened to me too. I spent 2 week with fearing to go again in heroics. Now with the same gear I get back every day and try some new.

I am not that kind of elitist, power controlling IRL but IG you have sometimes to take control. First because people don't want to lead or take responsibilities, secondly as a tank I have no other use outside.

Then on guild level, the tank has to be a core member.I even told the warrior "if you want to keep tanking take priority on the tanking drops, first I am pally might respec, might get gear another way and then if you let the tanking drop to a random member, he may just leave with it".
Because I used to see members leaving after being geared because "we are not progressing". It is OK for a DPS, less for an healer but really awful coming from a tank. Maybe one reason some MT are reluctant to let a new one take the job.

Most of the tanks actually do need some kind of "Alpha male" peculiarity, because the tank is the natural leader of the group.
It's him who decides the pace.
It's him who tells "KILL JOE".
It's him who's getting the beating and tickling the mobs in order to keep his attention on him while the rest of the group kills it.

Obviously, that doesn't mean the tanks is allowed to be a jerk or anything else.

Something considerably interesting i found in my own experience isn't really the "average tank", which overally are all equal, but instead the so called Main Tanks.

What exactly is the Main Tank? Most of us who play in current content knows that in fact the Main Tank concept died with TBC. 99% of the bosses are multitank encounters, eventually where the boss itself is tanked by more people, or where tanking adds might require more effort than tanking the boss itself.

People who are the "Guild's Main Tank"... who are those? There's multiple kind of people.

Some of them are the Alpha Males. They have the mentality "I'm the tank, i tank the big guy, you people stand behind me and tank his fellow servants". It's those people with which we often get in contrast, because they'd rather /wrist than admit they are inferior tanks for something. It's also the kind of people that WILL taunt mobs off you when their target dies. 99% of those are Warriors, and/or played pre-tbc, when a big part of the encounter was single tank, and where offtanks were just hybrid with 15 prot points for Defiance, so there was 1, maybe 2 full protection warriors in every guild. They were used to be the most important part of the encounter, and they don't want to give up. A discussion with those about "who shall tank this" where you have a clear advantage will end up in "I'm the main tank, i will tank it, stfu and heal"

Some other Main Tanks are instead reasonable, openminded people. They most of the times like discussing about class abilities, pros and cons of tanking something. They usually don't lead raids, or if they do, they do it calmly. They won't taunt a mob off you. If there's a situation where you have a clear advantage, they will most likely force you to abuse of it. They usually tank the "boss", unless there's a good reason to not tank it.

There's also some Main Tanks which aren't really skilled at their class, but they are supported by other people with terrible mentality. It's even worse if they think they are good. It's those cases where you don't tank Prince while a warrior with a average 600 TPS does "cause offis think you are a trash tank".

And there's many variations of those, closer to one or other...
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R.I.P. Sanctity Aura, it's Hammer Time

Does it absolutely needs to be a serious rational talk? I mean, when I entered my guild and MT was tauting mobs off me like you described, I told something like "Mate, when you taunt mob off me half-way, bruises on my face arent coming symmetrical enough, so let it be". We had some silly laughter about it and he stopped his ninja-taunting.

PS I admit being a girl I have an ultimate IWIN button. Up to day no one proved able of resisting, avoiding or otherwise evading my "I HAVE A FUCKING PERIOD DONT FUCKING MESS WITH ME" yell.

PPS Kidding! I've used it only once, when our ZA group began to bail after 3 wipes on eagle boss. I knew I was kicking their balls when I said "If a bleeding gal can do it, why cant you?!" It was exactly what was needed to make a clean, movie-quality kill.

PPPS Does it make me a jerk?

I definately take charge when I tank (when I can -- OTing in a 25 man means you need to lean back and have a beer, because you're following orders). I've realized I do it a lot more like tour guide than drill sergeant.

I didn't even realize I was doing it until someone commented on how I was explaining Kara bosses, then I couldn't stop laughing.

I'd actually been saying things like "Over here to the left you'll see the Shade of Aran. Aran is Medivh's father, and he's a bit confused as to why he's dead, and he's a bit angry about it. Here is the list of bad things you don't want to stand in..." and so on.

I just need an umbrella I can hold over my head so no one in the tour group gets lost -- wait, never mind, that's what raid marks are for.
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Sweeney: 70 Paladin, Runetotem

Very interesting posts. I would think however that the sample rate here is too small to make an valid interpretation of what type of person becomes a tank. I've seen Tanks that were the stereotypical "big dumb guy" and I've seen those gung-ho jarhead types. They were each successful at what they did at the level they were doing it. Does anyone remember before they lost their XP bar?

Personally, when I respecced to prot pally it was because my previous spec was "ooh ooh, this looks cool". After 60 levels, I decided I wanted the responsibility on this char. Yet, in our young guild, I still OT/Heal behind fury and arms warriors wielding 2h swords. (We're currently learning in 5-mans) Ironically, this is perfect for me. I'm still learning my char and I'm not confident enough to lead yet. But I still on occasion kill my trash and then step over and fill in for the dead MT. On the rare occasion that I do take the tank role, I don't mark. Until I learn more about running instances with a group. (did VC at level 35 and ST at 60 ) I'm content to not be the alpha.

I would tend to want to know how many others have "grown" in this way vice those that think they were "born" as the dominant tank.
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Sunburst, that's a good example of morale tanking. You rule.

(Morale tanking = smacking the raid backtogether when it all goes wrong. Doesn't always work, but when it does, it's sweet. I'll post about this and snake traps later.)

I can give kind of a testimonial about why I became a tank. A lot of this is my opinion based on what I've seen.

I rolled my paladin as my first toon ever. She's my first 70 ever as well. Naturally, I made the first mistakes of biting off more than i could chew, overconsecrating, underconsecrating, etc.

I initially started off as a ret paladin, until about 40. Then I hit a bit of an identity crisis when I realized that most of the two-handers at my level were for hunters, warriors, or got need ganked by either.

So I went holy. For a week. My brain simply cannot process healing a group. I can do zomg emergency heals, but that's about it.

My roomate, a paladin I learned a lot of stuff from and was holy, reccomended i try tanking, since he noticed I had better luck going balls first into a mob and coming out swinging than I ever did healing. He pointed out that blowing my mana on consecration was better suited to holding aggro than healing (thus why I was a bad healer, i learned. Yes, I am aware that this was dumb.).

I like tanking. I like it a lot.

I'll admit, I'm a bit of a control freak IRL, and my being a) a tank and b) a paladin kind of displays that. I will be the wall between the baddies and my squishies, and I will go first before my healer.

That's another bit of psycho-drama. It was tough for me to learn that sometimes you have to let someone die. Do you keep your healer (YES.) versus your dps? Do you go out of your way to save the fire mage who's been a jerk about aggro when your offtank is getting the gank even harder? Which healer do you save, if you have more than one? Letting the priest die and use their "I am now a Spirit Healer" skill has actually saved my raid a few times (on Illhoof, actually, which was kind of funny since he got eaten by the chains towards the end of the raid.)

The biggest annoyance I have actually is when other classes try telling me *not* to tank, unless they're a) my raid leader or b) a more experienced tank that I know. You can taunt off me all you like, so long as you did your mob first, but try not to get mad if I taunt back if the mob drops aggro to kill your clothies (Gruul's is a good example of this.) Paladins have the slower cooldown on RD for this purpose. We make the attempt, and if we can't, it's our job to get there as fast as we can to up the threat if someone hasn't gotten there first.

The point is that it shouldn't matter who tanks a mob; as long as the mob gets tanked and burnt down, that's a good pull in my book.
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Meroe :: 70 Human Paladin :: Moonrunner @ US

Miner/Jewelcrafter

I added a new thread, in similar line with this. Anybody watching this, I would appreciate a helping hand coming up with idea's.

http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintankadin/viewtopic.php?t=9167
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whatisboom.com - Two parts rocket fuel, one part genius.



http://armorylite.com/us/kael%27thas/korialstraz

0_o wow... loving this topic.. haha!

Well, I was holy pre bc and after BC, I started playing as a tank and I never looked back. It was alot more fun and challenging to

I think fall inot the overacheiver category. I also like doing my best in something I am interested in. I like recieving recognition for my best effort, I like the satisfaction of killing a boss because of my efforts in the fight, in the preparation of the fight and the search for certain gear with certain stats that I decide to prioritize say for MT role.

I am also very analytical. I am easily interested in the theory crafting and math of the talents and gears effect on certain variables like threat, avoidance. I could quit WoW for a week and not log in but still be reading and theory crafting.

by the way, as to your surprise, I am woman.

I do not have very testosterone based arrgogance but the experience that I have makes me confident and the knowledge I have of my class, talents, game mechanics , other tanking classes makes me confident. My constant success in heroics, SSC, Hyjal as main tank made me confident.

I actually monitor the wws reports and see that I take less dmg than warrrior tanks. They take 5 to 10% crushings when I take 0. so overall, the total dmg inthe duration of the fight is usually less, with or without demo/tc on most bosses. This is what I have been proud of about paladins.

Though,I have been very frustrated with the vast public opinion beign that paladins are not as good as warriors main tanking a boss. First, there are not enough paladin tanks to expose people to paladin tanking in BC. I suppose the holy paladins who had the easiest job in WoW hardly decided to change over. I know when I was holy , i was less motivated to research it all out and theory craft.

I have met the warriors who argue with me and think they are better than me. I have told them hard cold facts that I see in the wws reports about crushigns and overall dmg. They refuse to believe me and call me an idiot. They must be more likiely young teenagers, getting mad and resorting to immature name calling.

I think the arrogance you see in warriors is mostly from experience. They are more likely to have tanked pre bc and they have believed they are THE tank. They have been told they are good tanks. This recognition and experience I feel now, is what they have felt for more years. THis arrogance is learned through the experience and recognition. We all can be guilty of it.
BUt....
people can be arrogant and they also can be selfish.

I want to have opportunities totank, I want to do my best, I want to be able to grow through the opportunities ,
but
I want others to feel that growth too, I am willing to take turns with people to tank.


The other thing mentioned was control.
The tanking role does have alot of control with it.
Tanks initiate the pull, tell other people what to do for them to maximize their tanking success in a pull, e.g., warrior telling a hunter to MD, etc. , tanks initiate the next target to dmg.
Tanks control the aggro levels of the npcs.
THey allow dps to go full steam if they go full steam aggro.
They catch loose npcs. If a nearby groups, tanks have the satisfaction of saving the group from it, by saying doing an avenger shield.

I also heard of controlling other people.

I do not relate to the controlling of other people, I still have appreciate other people's growth and will entertain other people's ideas if it means they will grow, too.

THough, once I started tanking, I started to appreciate alot the strategy and control I had over the aggro of npcs. I could control and aggro mobs so that my party could dps them safely. I have the power of saving people from groups of mobs that may aggro. I could allow a party to aoe dps entire groups while i held the aggro on them. I enjoyed that kind of control. When I go back to healing, I feel like I can't control the aggro levels of anhything. If mobs go to someone, I am not in the position nor can i waste time from healing, trying to aggro something to save someone. I had to deal with bad tanks failing and killing our party members off and wiping adn having to retry again. As a tank, I have control over the situation to make us succeed.
There Ifinally got it out, that last sentence summed it up.


Ok, good luck. bye
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We have a very interesting tanking group in our guild.

Warrior #1: Incredible class knowledge, great gear, and a very laid back guy, but a good raid leader if needed. He got bored with tanking, and spends most of his time playing his warlock, but is glad to tank if the guild needs him.

Warrior #2: Left his old guild to join ours (his brother is a hunter in ours). He has the best tanking gear and amazing knowledge of encounters, but his old guild badly burned him out on tanking, and he joined us to be a fury dps. He thinks the aoe threat of pallytanks is quite possibly the greatest thing since sliced bread, and possibly loves heroic SH runs more than I do.

Druid #1: Prefers to be feral dps, but built a strong tanking set "in case the guild needs it". Great threat output, abet a teensy bit squishy. He actually prefers to OT, and encourages others to taunt off him so he can go kitty.

Pally #1: This is me. I leveled the pallytank before warrior #2 joined us, and when Warrior #1 was starting to get burned out, which none of us wanted to happen. I'm afraid I conform to a lot of the steriotypes listed above... I seem to have to run everything when tanking, but the other guildies are nice enough to reign me in a bit when I get overbearing.

Overall, we work together very well as a group.. On tough stuff (helping sister guilds with progression, etc) I'm more than happy to defer to warrior #1 for MT duties (he enjoys tanking new stuff), and play my hunter (main) or resto shammy, and warrior #2 is always helpful with tips and hints from his experience. After trying several times in the past to recruit a suitable successor to Warrior #1 and getting several bad apples in a row, we've found a good balance that is lots of fun for everyone.

We have three tanks in my guild, all with different reasons and personalities. I also want to preface this by saying that we all know each other well IRL; most of my guildmates I've been friends with for years, and we all started WoW together, so when bruised egos happen or runs go bad, we can't just log or find a guild where things are easier; we see each other at Denny's afterwards. =P

Tank 1: A warrior, one who made a warrior because we had no tanks at the time and prefers Fury for the most part. He enjoys tanking because he likes being able to direct the flow of battles; if he has a weakness, it's micromanagement, and for a while he took it personally when I off-tanked peels as a ret pally instead of letting it go.

Tank 2: A druid, who also has a 70 pally. Great druid tank. Not so good pally tank. Tanks because he can, and he's got a 70 of pretty much every class.

Tank 3: Me. I stopped playing my warlock and rolled a pally for something different; fell in love with the class, and I love tanking because I know we need them, and because I like being dependable. I let my friends worry about most damage and crazy crits and whatnot, and I just do my job so that they can do theirs. I like being able to sit back over the corpse of some heroic boss saying, we rocked, and I did my part. I don't micromanage at all, and while I can trust my friends to do their jobs, this hamstrings me in PUGs. Especially since not many people I've pugged with understand paladin tanks.

So we all have different reasons, and weaknesses as a result; I think that because we all know each other, the dynamics are a bit different, but our styles are all still wildly dissimilar.

Great thread. =)
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"Only the dead have seen the end of war." -Plato

I didn't realize paladins had a protection tree until I started leveling one. In the early days after the release of TBC tankadins still had a pretty bad rap. I don't know of any other prot pallies on my server at the time even. So after leveling prot 35-70 I decided to stick with it (to many jeers from guildies).

So early in my "tanking career" my whole goal was just proving people wrong. Proving that pallies could tank anything. And I think I was pretty successful. Its pretty easy to convert anyone after a heroic shattered run, although I don't suggest taking a warrior MT with you as dps.

Overall I think situational awareness is probably the most important thing a tank of any class needs. The ability to not only know what your job is and where you need to stand but also knowing where the rest of the raid is at all times. And I mean the tanks, not raid leaders. (although they should have situational awareness as well). Just because you are busy tanking doesn't mean you can't take advantage of lay on hands/cleanse/blessing of protection on your fellow raid members. Lets be honest, once you have a spell rotation down it gets pretty dull just focusing on tanking. And I think with WotLK giving us more "reactive" type abilities (hand of salvation for example) its going to require the tanks have even more awareness.
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