Please help me prove to my guild...

Ok, here is the post form my GM to me, when I asked why I am passed ny less geared and less experienced tanks that have been in the guild less time

"Sup, Got your msg

Prot Pallys are great for 5-man instances and some 10-man instances.

For Raiding, Pallys Healers are more needed.
The best OTs are always going to be Feral Druids.

Rarely are Prot Pallys needed for 25-raids, execpt for a few specifc gimmic fights. "

Help me with a response to prove it, because everything I typed up came out sounding defensive and nasty, which isnt the way to win this discussion...I am fully geared in Kara epics though my armory is Ret right now, I needed to PVP some to blow off some steam...

I am 18K HP Raid buffed, 24% dodge, 20% Block...

Thanks

Narcil

If that is his response, and passes you over for lesser geared/skilled tanks - then honestly - Leave the guild.

A smaller guild with dedicated Tanks/Healers can make far more progression and be more successful than GM's with that type of Mentality.

problem is, I have a dozen or SO RL friends in this guild, its kinda hard to leave....im looking for hard evidence to support his statement, or refute it

Leave anyway? It's not like your friends will suddenly turn on you because of it.

Seriously. You're not going to prove that gm anything, simply because, on their heads, "warriors can too" equals to "warriors are better, therefore making paladins completely useless and disposable", even if they are not.
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Tank in Training, group utility perception was so much easier as a dpser <whines>

Part of the problem as I see it, is that bosskillers.com and wowwiki.com and other "boss strategy sites" have little to no mention of Tankadins in most of their strategies. So when many raid leaders read up strategies, they assume a Tankadin is not needed at all. And subsequently if the strats don't specifically say they need one, then they don't want to "waste" a slot bringing one.

However our guild includes a Tankadin slot for our raids, and many if not all of SSC is much easier if you do so. And if you read these forums, you'll also find that to be the case for Mt. Hyjal as well. If your raid leader were open to reading some of the strats here, he might be willing to bring you along on a raid to try it out.

You might also consider that the raid has a limited number of tanking positions, and for reasons personal to the raid leader they are already filled.
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You cannot just displace someone that is already doing the job. I suggest you make a deal with him. You will heal when you are needed to heal (and even spec that way), and you will tank those gimmick fights. You may be surprised at what the results end up being.

The raid leader is technically correct, feral druids are the best tanks are holding secondary aggro on a mob tanked by someone else. However, he may be ill informed about all the different types of tanking duties.

For my guild, we were able to cut down the number of tanks needed for trash by adding myself to the list and dropping a dps warrior and a feral druid from tanking duty. We now run the War Pal Feral Trio. (with another feral and an arms/fury warrior on backup duty)
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<3 Tankadin at Heart.

Not necessarily accurate: Armory

Yeah - I have no idea what to do with guild leaders who think that way. Depending on the person, you may or may not be able to persuade them. Point them to these forums, I'd say, especially the boss strategy forums.

Otherwise, they're just shooting themselves in the foot. Good tanks are hard to come by and causing all your paladin tanks to quit is just silly.

Just look at it as a chance to move on.
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Nowadays on most of the fights, 1 prot war, 1 prot paladin and 1 feral druid is the way to go. Add eventually a 2nd feral or war in case of a 4th needed tank.
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Your raid will NOT be disappointed if you go with 1 warrior/1 paladin/1-2 feral druids. That is, in my honest opinion, the holy grail of tanking setups. It makes any fight, from the tanking perspective, easy as hell.
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What does your (if your guild uses them) classleader say?
Try convincing your GM that you arent needed, but that you make the life of everyone much easier. Compare yourself to a spriest maybe, and sum up the pro's to take a protadin
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Get him to read "The officers guide to Tankadins"

Its a guide specificly written for this purpose.
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*WARNING! Highly Susceptible to Flameage!*

Yup, you can't beat 1/1/2.
You could also mention to him that you don't need warrior tanks for any content until BT(1 Boss mid way through the instance) if you liked.

If you're european send him my way, it's rare that RLs argue their usefulness with me, until very recently our general thing is: If we're going to replace a tank, it's gonna end up being a war.
Not the Pally.
Now we don't really replace the war just stick'em on nightfall duty.

There isn't any convincing some people, so you'll just have to live with it or leave. Shame really, if you have friends.

I'm not sure how far progressed your guild is, but at the T5 stage of the game, there actually are quite a few fights that your guild can beat in half the time if they have a prot paladin, including:

Hydross
Morogrim
Leotheras
Solarian
Alar
Vashj

As far as I know there is really only one fight that actually requires a warrior tanks -- Essence of Anger -- which I understand is a spell reflect thing.

Its funny, but I honestly don't think that Paladins are really so great at healing that such a fuss should be made over holy paladins. Holy paladins are nice healing turrets, but Holy Paladins are extremely limited otherwise. Any fight that requires mobility is potentially a wipe if you over rely on Holy Paladins.

Personally, I think that this sentiment is a residue of pre-nerf Illumination and pre-nerf Spiritual Attunement, when 4x Holy Paladins could do the work of 6 healers on certain fights. Druids are much better healers IMHO, as are priests -- particularly when you can use Circle of Healing and let's not forget PoM -- and Shaman healers are simply hax right now because of chain healing and earthshield