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Maintankadin

Single Target Threat, my major problem

Kithys
Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:27 pm

Single Target Threat, my major problem

Ok, I have 2 real life friends that I play with all of the time in instances, one is a Holy Paladin, the other an Enhancement Shaman. I have no trouble at all keeping aggro when we are fighting groups of enemies, but when we fight just one I can't seem to hold aggro at all. The Enhancement Shaman absolutely will not hold back on his damage, saying that I need to learn how to hold aggro so that we can kill things faster without him dying. He only does this so I'll become a better tank(We decided this together). Now it is only going to get worse because all of his new Outland gear is giving his strength and crit rating so he can kill more effectively, while all of my tank gear will only allow me to take damage more easily, so I will have no hope of keeping up with his TPS. I am using Blessing of Salvation as well, by the way.

Ok, so my question for all of you experienced tanks is:
How do I generate more threat on a single target?

Edit: Also, what totems should I request from the shaman?
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http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Zul%27jin&n=Kithys
Nebuchadneza
Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:55 pm
Taking it from another angle, BoP that Shammy!!

Additionally how does your Shaman friend go threat-wise against other tanks besides yourself?

Does he give you any lead time before opening up? It's one thing to be able to frontload buckets of threat but if people don't give you a second or so of grace then it doesn't matter how good you are.

What level is your friend currently (with Outland gear) if you are 55 and not able to get to Outland by yourself? (Through the portal that is and not be summoned) I noticed you don't have any spell damage gear yet which you will have access to in a lot of the initial quests in Outlands once you hit level 58. *Edit* Looking at your Roster you have a 60 Shaman in your guild. Is this the guy? There is a bit of a difference in level and likely gear which will make it harder for you to keep up.

Do you use Improved Righteous Fury all the time?

It's a silly question, but when you say:
Zonzede
Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:58 pm
It is the job of DPS to stay under the threat your are putting out. It is your job to make that as high as possible.

No matter what, he should not be passing you.
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Pizbit
Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:44 am
If he has outlands gear and you don't, you're screwed.
You are *not* on the same gear level.
Also for him trying to 'make you a better tank' by riding high on threat, have both of you install Omen threat meter and have him ride at ~110-120% and watch him slowly fail to do that as you do gear up in outlands gear.
BoP him if he hits 130% Very Happy
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Kvaern
Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:38 am
An equally geared enhancement shaman who nukes without a care can pull aggro of any tank.

It's all about WF procs.
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Belarkan
Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:39 am
Review your talents.
1 handed weapon gives you 5% more damages any source ence more threat.

You may also lack spell damage. Get a spell damage weapon to ease you.
Once you ding 70, you should work the keeper of time reputation for the leggings and the blade from honored there. with 130 spell damage + 40 from enchant, you'll be able to clean Karazhan without much issues.
I'm now playing with 300 spell damage and I manage to keep the aggro while my crazy shadow priest run around with 1k dps (measured during an heroic underbog run).

However, you'll find that balancing your survivability with your spell damage is where protection paladin have hard time.
Not taking enough damages means less mana and less spell damages. thus less threat generation.
Swaping some defense gear for spell damages means you'll take more damages and regen more mana but if you take too much, you'll die.

Edit:
Last time we did romuo & julian, both were on me. I didn't go crazy on threat generation but it still took time to the shaman to take the boss I wasn't hitting out of me. Holy shield + consecration + nice spell damage amount mostly win.
Kithys
Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:46 am
Well, he does give me a few seconds to get a lead, enough time to use Avenger's Shield, seal/judge righteousness, and use exorcism if applicable. The last time we did an instance was at level 54 and 56, he was 56 of course, the one in my guild is the one I run with (And Thanadin the paladin is our healer). We both have KTM. I also do use Improved Righteous Fury, I keep it on at all times. I haven't really been seeking new gear lately strictly because I am getting to Outland soon and all of the stuff I get now will be worthless.

I plan on going for the Keepers of Time gear, and I'm an enchanter too, so the enchantments that I need shouldn't be hard to come by. The other paladin and the shaman both send me all of their BoE greens so i can level my enchanting a lot faster, and the other paladin is a JC so he gets a lot of them.

I plan on also getting one-handed weapon spec. I am not sure about him pulling aggro off of other tanks, he doesn't talk much about running instances that don't have me in them, unless he got a rare drop.

Should I get +20 spell damage to gloves or 2% threat bonus? Is it worth it to give him a 2% threat reduction on his gloves?

That's all I've got time for now, I've got to get back to class, break is almost over. Thanks for all of the help so far, I really appreciate it.

P.S. The Blessing of Salvation is on him, not me Smile

Edit: Should I use Consecration and Holy Shield in battles with only one enemy?
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http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Zul%27jin&n=Kithys
Oohnagi
Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:00 am
Definitely use holy shield in every battle. I usually lead with a max rank cons, and then use down-ranked consecrates depending on my threat lead. If you are having problems holding aggro, use all your tools Wink
Lore
Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:16 am
A couple points, mostly echoing the rest of the thread:

1. An enhancement shaman will always be able to pull aggro off of you. Generating as much threat as you can is good, generating more threat than he can, even with an equal gear level, is impossible. A good tank focuses first on survival and second on generating as much threat as possible. If your DPS has to hold back a little, that can slow things down. If you die, it's a wipe.
2. Make sure you're using all the threat tools at your disposal. J/SoR, Consecration, and Holy Shield are your bread and butter threat abilities.
3. There isn't crap for spell damage gear before Outlands, your threat with no spell damage gear doesn't mean much. Once you start getting some quested gear your spell damage - and thus your threat - will start to climb quickly.
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Me, LOL!