Skip to content
Maintankadin

Avenger's shield and the daze

Strendarr
Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:59 am

Avenger's shield and the daze

It really annoys me when people who can't figure out how to use features of skills to their advantage ask for them to be removed from the game. This dude on the official forums wanted the daze gone because he thinks some mobs not getting to him fast is actually a bad thing.

Here was part of my post in my response:

Akairos
Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:55 pm
I'd love a glyph that shortens (or removes) the daze in exchange for a longer silence effect.
_________________

DRINK POWER THIRST TO WIN AT EVERYTHING FOREVER.
Panzerdin
Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:10 pm
IMO, the daze isn't useful.
_________________
If you shoot Anthony several hundred times with an anti-tank rifle whilst he is stabbed to death by a squad of ninja monkeys, he will be dead.

OK?
Strendarr
Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:26 pm
Geez guys not the responses I was hoping for from the maintankadin community.

It's not so much that I'm just looking for people to blindly agree with me, more that I figured you guys would be able to give a good reason why not if there was one. If there was no daze they'd all just run to you in one bunch and your HotR would have MUCH less chance of hitting those mobs you didn't already have threat on, which means you're left with BOM BOM BOM consecrate as your sole source of grabbing aggro on those mobs that havent yet been hit, which means you've got a lot of mobs that are just going to run straight though and gib first your AOE DPS, then your healers after that, leaving you in a position to possibly get hit in the back trying to recover the pack.

I disagree with the numbers analysis.

1-3 AS hits them all, so they're dazed, whoopsee doo, daze does nothing there
3-6 AS hits the first 3, HotR hits the other 3, good threat on all of them
6-9 AS hits the first 3, HotR hits another 3, Judgement on #7, Sheild Slam #8

so WITH the daze effect you're up to EIGHT mobs that you'll be able to have guaranteed threat on over and above consecrate.

Now let's look at without the daze effect where it matters:

(6 Enemies): AS hits 3 of them who are not separated from the pack. Now you have no ability to control which mobs get hit by HotR, meaning you MIGHT get lucky and hit the other 3 that weren't hit originally, or what's more likely is that you've got doubling on a few of them. That's still okay though because you've still got judgement and shield slam if it does double up on the AS targets. However, there's now a chance that 1 mob can go completely unhit other than consecrate if you get unlucky with HotR doubling up exactly on your AS targets. That won't happen though because you wouldn't target one of those mobs that got hit, right?

Okay, fair enough, but that's still a chance that you'll have a mob without any additional threat on it in that 6 mob pull and you can't do anything about that, versus GUARANTEED threat on all of them.

Now lets look at...
(8 Enemies): AS = 3, HotR = either 3 new targets or it could end up being none. Judgement = 1 more target, Shield Slam = 1 more target. So, that leaves possibly up to THREE mobs loose that previously you would've had guaranteed threat on, just because you removed the daze.

The daze is GOOD. Leave it ALONE.

please.

damnit.

lol

edit; btw also consider the fact that (its pretty self explanatory but I'll say it anyhow so it cant be used against me in anti-daze posts) if mobs do run through the consecrate to start attacking AOE DPS and healers that it's a lot easier to deal with 2-4 less mobs being back there than it is with those extras back there.

TL;DR
Daze effect allows a guarantee of more mobs being tanked safely which means less downtime from deaths and prevents more wipes. It's flat out straight up better, why remove it? The extra 4 seconds you wait for them to walk to you takes up less time than rezzing dead people who got gibbed by loose mobs because you couldn't hold threat.
_________________
-Bringer of prot-itude on the Shu'Halo realm-
Valerius
Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:37 pm
I don't know. I run with a couple of pretty decked out DPSers and though they are normally good about it, I have occasionally had them go to town on a mob that I AS'd before it got in range of the Hammer or my Consecrate and consequently had to taunt them back, Not that it's a big deal, but without the Daze that would never have happened.

I would like at least the option (read: a glyph) to remove the daze effect in exchange for something else.
Knaughty
Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:10 pm
I'm with the crowd wanting the daze removed.

I've never liked the daze. With it being a silence I really don't want the daze. Silence might wear off before the mobs get to me.

I'm also with the crowd who want a shorter CD. 30 seconds is too long, I usually want to pull next pack after 20-25 seconds and can't because AS is on CD.

I do agree we need AE snap aggro. Could easily be fixed by applying the Exorcism change to Holy Wrath. Then we'd have both Consecrate and a Shockwave. Again - 20 sec CD please. 30 too slow.
_________________
This isn't the "Offtankadin" forum.
Knaughty of the Nightfall.
Basic FAQ and Advanced FAQ
Wolvar
Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:23 pm
daze is a pain in the ass, make it go away.

If yer pulling 9 mobs, they won't be powerful enough to hurt much even if you did lose aggro on a couple. It's not like tab/RD is hard.
_________________
Thalani
Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:29 pm
I would like to see a glyph that lets Hammer of the Righteous hit an additional target...and Hand of Reckoning miss less...

This is an interesting post, though, because I never thought of using it QUITE like this. I used to use it as a pulling tool when people actually crowd controlled and waited on DPS. Now I use it to charge in and throw in a pack's face for immediate "Oh HAI there" effect. I used to target skull with it. Now I target one of the last kill targets with it on those spread out packs so I can try to spread the threat around.
Hmmm...

-T.
Fridmarr
Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:36 pm
Technically, the point of the daze can't possibly be related to HotR in the slightest, because the skill didn't exist when Avenger's Shield was added. It's hard to say the exact reason, but it probably has to do with CC.
_________________
http://armorylite.com/us/frostmane/fridmarr/
Rummy
Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:46 pm
I'm with OP on this one

Yes, its annoying having to wait around for the mobs to come to you and yes sometimes you get agro from some nub dps who are impatient (but generally if you let them die they dont do it a second time), but I think i'd miss it if it were changed, because its so easy to get agro on all mobs in a 4-5pack with the daze when the non-dazed get to you first
_________________
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Khaz%27goroth&n=Rumstock
Makaijin
Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:18 pm
I always thought when AS was originally introduced, the daze effect was to help with the paladin's problems with closing onto targets, especially from runners. If I remember right, PoJ wasn't available on first introduction to AS the (2.0 patch pre TBC) but like 1-2 patches after TBC's release. As well as a pulling tool, it was (supposed) to be used as a ranged snare, since we didn't have much or a ranged attack if at all.
_________________