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Maintankadin

Stamina Vs Avoidance

Rhiannon
Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:10 am
Sure, it's good enough. Sure, there's plenty of ways you could optimise it to make it easier for your healers. Weird gemming and enchanting in several slots.
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theckhd
Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:51 am
I think I'm just reiterating what others have said, but here are suggestions to optimize your gear:

Head: I see you're revered with Argent Crusade. This Arcanum will give you more defense and a chunk of stamina.
Chest: I'd go with 24 stam in the blue socket and 8 def / 12 stam in the yellow. The 16 defense you lose can be made up for by enchanting the chest with +22 def. If you're still hurting for defense, you could stick with the 16 def gem in the yellow socket until you can afford to swap it out.
Wrist: Strength is a sub-par enchant. It gives you a small amount of block value and some threat, but you'll almost always be better off with straight stam or defense. In this case, use 40 stam if you're willing to drop the chunk of change, but for a piece you'll replace soon just use the old 12 defense enchant
Weapon: The one place you'll enchant for strength. +20 Str here.
Shield: 15 Block Rating is probably not as useful at this point as a straight +20 Defense. Even considering block-capping.
Gloves: Again, when given better options, don't gem or enchant for strength. It's a blue socket, so I'd go for straight 24 stam here.
Belt: Again, don't gem for strength. Go with 8 dodge / 12 stam for a red socket if you can. At your gear level, the 8 parry / 12 stam gem is OK as well, and more widely available on some servers, but it's not as good as dodge / stam. As a general rule though, I don't gem for parry.
Legs: Red socket = 8 dodge / 12 stam. The defense should be made up for by the enchant suggestions I've already made
Boots: Icewalker is probably not necessary, go with 22 stam here, or Tuskarr's Vitality if you like run speed

Rings, Trinkets look ok. I usually prefer 1 avoidance trinket and 1 stam trinket, but given your current set-up, the block value trinket isn't bad to help reach block cap. Once you can consistently block-cap without it though (which may take a bit more gear), don't be afraid to swap it out for straight stam.
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http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Blackrock&n=Theck
leperkhaun
Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:25 am
if you got the cash the agi enchant to weapon is also a nice one and the titanium weapon chain thing is nice too.
Isetnefret
Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:30 am
Are you looking at Magelo? I hate it, and I'm going to switch to something else. Suffice to say, that profile isn't accurate.

Armory is actually accurate for once.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kirin+Tor&n=Isetnefret

I was actually working on Argent Crusade faction and then completely forgot why. I have 1 str gem in my gear, the rest is avoidance/def. Would you gem def/stam and dodge/stam or dodge/def? If I don't gem the way I have, I fall under the block cap. As it is right now, for heroic bosses, at 82, my 102.0% seems to do just fine, but Kings puts me over the cap if I get overly concerned about it.

I'm at 22K health unbuffed. I still haven't heard a solid number for someone who has no raid drops.

I have 22def to chest. I got the mats for, and had planned to get armsman for gloves. You think straight stam would be better?

I kept 12 str on wrist because someone in the guild wanted a skill-up for their enchanter. I didn't plan on keeping them long enough for it to matter.

For weapon, I took adamantite weapon chain. Why no str other places but yes str on weapon? I got rid of more than 20 str in gems....seems like I'm running in circles if I put it right back on a weapon.

Shield, I've got the mats for the 20 def, I'll see if I can track down an enchanter.

Belt...was fixed before your post, per armory.

Trinkets: I wanted to change Dabiri's to the Pantheon Trinket from Lokken. Is that not a good idea?


On more than one occasion, I have been asked to replace a tank with 25k++ health, because they just couldn't do it. Maybe they were geared correctly and just didn't know how the hell to play? Who knows.

I just know that I haven't had those kinds of problems. I haven't had the problems people are saying that I should have. I'm all for making it easier on the healers/DPS.
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Vioarr
Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:38 am
You should be using Dodge + Def rating for orange gems, if that's your perogative. +Parry rating require much more to get 1% out of than Dodge.
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bub64882
Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:58 pm
I was 20K health when I started tanking heroics. Still haven't set foot in a 10 man or 25 man, and am at 23K unbuffed. I still need to gem (prolly dodge) and enchant (epic legpatch) the epic legs from VH, but haven't been online to get it done.

The stamina to bracers will also quickly replace the expertise enchant, as I understand we are fine on expertise for now w/ just the glyph + whatever falls on your gear.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Gorgonnash&n=Tusentak

And yeah, I like Dabiri's too, but the Loken one is better imo. I'm actually using Loken and Dabiri now. I'm considering working up some honor and buying the 2 min fear break trinket from PVP.
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Fafa
Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:48 pm
When I first started heroics (mind you this was in pretty much full Sunwell gear regemmed and reenchanted for def and double def trinkets) my stats weren't too far off from yours (actually less).

20334 hp
21992 armor w/ devo
22.41% dodge
15.67% parry
13.79%% block
542 defense

I handled every single heroic just fine - doing a ton of the Glory of the Hero achievements in the process. In fact I never did a single normal mode instance since the day I hit 80. The first time I raided 25m Naxx, I MTd in pretty much the same gear aside from 3 or 4 wrath upgrades that bumped my hp up 2k and my dodge by 2%. The healer having squat for mana regen coupled with the downrank nerf was more of a problem than my hp or gear - I pulled slower, no big deal - used cc on big pulls if they seemed a bit much, no big deal.

Sure you have areas on your gear that you could improve, namely your bracer and boot enchant don't make much sense to me - but w/e floats your boat. There are a couple of slots that could be easily upgraded still with heroic drops or crafted stuff - but the difficulty in that is easily understood when pugs are expecting to see a 33k unbuffed tank carry them through the instance and you are replaced.

But you most definitely can handle any heroic instance just fine as long as you aren't butt tanking mobs. Make good friends with a healer that doesn't watch tv the whole instance run and say to hell with all the naysayers. I know from personal experience that those stats can handle heroics and much more just fine.

The trend for WotLK seems to be EH>Avoidance, and I couldn't happier. Sunwell Radiance sucked. Juggling gear stats around endlessly trying to hit minimum numbers for 5 different stats on a per fight basis sucked. Its for the best, trust me.

My 2 cents: 540 def->~26k hp minimum (required if you ever MT 25 man Malygos, more is better)->block cap->whatever else suits your style, but personally I find I get more mileage out of stam once you are block capped.
Deet
Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:05 pm
Pugs judging people by health isn't really anything new though. People just want to be carried. Health almost universally increases with gear level, so they think simply about things. Most people can't seem to be bothered by the most basic aspects of other classes or group roles.

I'm not going to downplay the importance of stamina though. You're going to take some pretty big (practically) unavoidable damage in raids. Stamina is a failsafe for when you're not avoiding, both are very important.