[25] Mimiron Hard Mode

What uses arcane damage in phase 2?

Belloc wrote:What uses arcane damage in phase 2?

I just checked, and indeed, it's spellfire damage with an Arcane Barrage icon. Arcane Resistance shouldn't matter then.

I also updated the WoWWiki page to show the Lesser Flask of Resistance.

Wow, we were operating under the assumption that it was arcane damage too.

Not that that changes anything. Your ranged still should be flasking lesser resistance to counteract the Heat Wave, and all paladins should be speced into Divine Guardian/Divine Sac.

Killed.

Will have a high quality video tomorrow.

Movie up.
http://forlornlegacy.net/media/mimiron.php

Highly reccomend downloading High def instead of watching stream. Its far better quality.

Joanadark wrote:Movie up.
http://forlornlegacy.net/media/mimiron.php

Highly reccomend downloading High def instead of watching stream. Its far better quality.

Just got around to watching your video. My ten man group got ridiculously close to a kill last night (<0.5% left on head, torso dead, heals bottom back to 50%) and our strategy is pretty much identical to yours in the video. The only difference was that we intentionally left the firefighters up in P3 (aside from the ones directly in the group). What this basically lead to is a chaotic first 30-45 seconds of phase 3, but after that, most fires are cleared and you're just kiting him in a circle. This also means that in P4, you do pretty much the same kiting motion and that aren't many frost bombs. I noticed, though, that your immediate killing of firefighters meant you were at the fire cap with enough open space to basically stop moving completely.

That strategy naturally requires you to give up a little DPS each time the firefighters spawn, but in return, you've eliminated a few issues. First, tanks won't be silenced when picking up Assault Bots. It might not be as relevant in 25, but in 10, it seems like 1/3 good P3 attempts, I'd get silenced and an Assault Bot would kill someone. Second, your healers no longer have to move and can't be silenced, which will decrease your likelihood of someone dying. Lastly, you have guaranteed clean openings to drop the head. Often it takes us an additional drop phase simply because a fire spawned on melee or something gets boxed in, but if no additional fires can spawn, that makes head DPS much more reliable.

It also gives you a guaranteed Frost Bomb at the beginning of phase 4, which isn't that bad because it'll be on the side with fire and they're not as lethal as the firefighters anyway. It's an interesting idea. I'll talk it over with the raid leader and see if we can't give it a shot for 10 man.

Well, gosh, now I've got to watch the video. We're able to get to phase 3, but we always fall apart or get nothing done.

moduspwnens wrote:

Joanadark wrote:Movie up.
http://forlornlegacy.net/media/mimiron.php

Highly reccomend downloading High def instead of watching stream. Its far better quality.

Just got around to watching your video. My ten man group got ridiculously close to a kill last night (<0.5% left on head, torso dead, heals bottom back to 50%) and our strategy is pretty much identical to yours in the video. The only difference was that we intentionally left the firefighters up in P3 (aside from the ones directly in the group). What this basically lead to is a chaotic first 30-45 seconds of phase 3, but after that, most fires are cleared and you're just kiting him in a circle. This also means that in P4, you do pretty much the same kiting motion and that aren't many frost bombs. I noticed, though, that your immediate killing of firefighters meant you were at the fire cap with enough open space to basically stop moving completely.

That strategy naturally requires you to give up a little DPS each time the firefighters spawn, but in return, you've eliminated a few issues. First, tanks won't be silenced when picking up Assault Bots. It might not be as relevant in 25, but in 10, it seems like 1/3 good P3 attempts, I'd get silenced and an Assault Bot would kill someone. Second, your healers no longer have to move and can't be silenced, which will decrease your likelihood of someone dying. Lastly, you have guaranteed clean openings to drop the head. Often it takes us an additional drop phase simply because a fire spawned on melee or something gets boxed in, but if no additional fires can spawn, that makes head DPS much more reliable.

It also gives you a guaranteed Frost Bomb at the beginning of phase 4, which isn't that bad because it'll be on the side with fire and they're not as lethal as the firefighters anyway. It's an interesting idea. I'll talk it over with the raid leader and see if we can't give it a shot for 10 man.

Good luck on clinching a kill soon! Heartbreaking to get so close.

We found that the enrage timer on 25-man was much less forgiving in 10-man, where it wasnt really a factor at all (even our first 10-man kills were minutes ahead of the enrage). However in 25-man we HAD to shave time off the clock. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, initially we were doing well and reaching p4, but realizing that we simply had nowhere near enough time on the clock to successfully complete the encounter in time. It wasn't even enough of a margin where DPS improvements could compensate, we had to actually come up with a strat change.
Phase 3 was really the key to the whole encounter for us. Done wrong it was the hardest part, and done right it was the easiest by far. It was also where we shaved off the most time. Phase 3 took us almost exactly 100 seconds from start to finish and this was accomplished by the extent of control we brought to the phase. Maintaining flame cap is a huge element of it, and eliminating silences by rocking the Emergency Bots right where they spawn for both the first and second spawns, and then blowing heroism and nuking the second Assault Bot and then the head down to 0%. Watching the movie you can see several fire spawns that, had we not been at flame cap and maintained it, would have destroyed the raid's effectiveness, and sent us into phase 4 in a much worse position, if we'd even been able to survive the phase at all.
The time element really is crucial though. You could really see it, but the Self-Destruct message occured a split second before all the acheivement spam. Another second and we would have died and wiped.

P4 really isnt that tough. Once you get there it's just a game of waiting for a frost bomb to go off, and moving into that area, and staying alive.
We actually got credit for no one dying to rockets for the Setting Up the Bomb acheivement, lol. All we need for that one is bomb bots, cause our strat is for a DK to death grip them away and explode them on himself.

This was actually only our third time reaching phase 4 cleanly, with everyone alive and enough time on the clock. That seems to be the case for most guilds which defeated it.
Took approximately 45 hours or so of progression work to learn it, not counting the 10-man kills which took maybe 10 or so for both groups. Nowhere near pre-nerf Muru (over 400 attempts), but the closest we've seen all expansion. Far more challenging than algalon. 25-man phase 2 is the hardest thing to heal in the game right now.

Finally, woo @ my pro Healthstone+Art of War proc when I dipped to 3% during p2.

I've thought over your P3 strat more, and while it looks pretty effective for 25 man, I'm not sure it'll be as good for 10 man simply because, well, is the fire cap the same? It looks like in 25 man, you have a pretty good portion of the room to work with at the cap. In 10 man, I'm not sure we'd get that much room. I'd normally assume they'd be the same, but it seems like if there's anything (aside from health and healing required) they'd change from 25 man to 10, it'd be that they wouldn't let you have so much room to spread out.

Good point, has anyone figured out the actually "cap" for flames for both 10 and 25m?

Donahu wrote:Good point, has anyone figured out the actually "cap" for flames for both 10 and 25m?

Even if you did, there's no gauge or anything. It looks like it's about 60% in Joanadark's video. I think I've seen much more than that in 10 man, but I'm usually paying attention to other things so I can't be sure.

Its decieving when you just let the fire do its own thing. Our fires were very tightly controlled, and thus clustered very densely together for most of the fight. We do the same in 10-man. When fires are clustered densely, the space available appears to be pretty flexible.
I'm almost certain there isnt a big difference in flame cap between 10-man and 25-man. When you let Emergency Bots loose, however, they dont put out fires in a efficient manner. In an early strategy we were killing half the Emergency Bots each spawn, with the idea of just keeping ahead of overall fire spawn in the room and not actually trying to clear it by letting them all free. What we discovered is that they put out really random patches that tend to not be connected at all. So what you end up with is what seems like the entire room covered in fire, because theres just a bunch of little patches here and there that are uncovered, but no coherent area.

One thing I think is possible though is for fires to overlap, and both count towards flame cap even though they occupy the same "grid". So, for example, a flame can chase someone over top of part of another flame, creating an overlapped section which counts for double towards meeting flame cap.

But yeah, having done both 10-and 25-man versions, as far as I can tell the flame cap is not different between them. Thats part of what makes 10-man inherently easier, fewer people to spread out within the same space.

Sounds like it's probably worth trying, then.

Fight massively nerfed.
The whole 25% damage increase to everything....the thing that makes it hard mode, is gone.
Fires, heat wave, mines, plasma blast, everything hits for significantly less.

Not only that, there was a 3.33% hp nerf to everything in the fight, which adds up.

Also, reportedly in 10-man the emergency fire bots no longer silence.

Firefighter went from the most difficult hard mode, to the easiest hard mode.