Libram of Valiance vs Defiance

What are your thoughts on Libram of Valiance compared to Libram of Defiance for maintanking? First assumption would be the extra dodge given that we are already a high threat tank but with the threat "nerfs" and changes in TbtL it kind of makes the +Str libram attractive especially when replacing one that is already threat based (obstruction).

In my current gear (uld25 + hardmodes) the dodge libram is bringing me to about 3% boost with my DR. That is pretty good but I do not plan on regemming my current lolstam stacking on my progression gear (38k unbuff) and the STR one seems like it would fit in nicely with the coming changes instead of having to worry about losing threat on critical hardmodes such as hodir where DPS is going upwards of 15-18k.

Thoughts?

Considering the eventual rate of eot acquisition once all the raid mobs are available, 25 Emblems is cheap enough that you'll quickly have both if you want them. Get the one that gives you the most immediate benefit, which would probably be the Libram of Defiance unless you're regularly threat-capped or spend a lot of time in ret spec.

Well technically the less avoidance you stacked the more relative use avoidance will have from your current situation as to preventing spikes. Seeing as you can already survive them. Then there is DR ofc, if you have low avoidance you suffer less. Although I think the dodge libram is quite imba on any level of EH/AV regardless.

All depends on if you want more survival or more dps really.

I definitely plan on using both ultimately. Honestly, I'm having so few problems staying alive at this point, its a running joke in my guild. However, threat really isn't an issue either. My dps is never "necessary" when I roll Ret mid-raid, which is increasingly less often post 3.2. There are still some fights we are working on that require greater survivability (one light for my guild, that increased avoidance can only help) Accordingly, I would go for Defiance at the time being, and gather enough EoT to purchase the other pre 3.22, just in case agro loss is greater than feared.

Faids wrote:What are your thoughts on Libram of Valiance compared to Libram of Defiance for maintanking? First assumption would be the extra dodge given that we are already a high threat tank but with the threat "nerfs" and changes in TbtL it kind of makes the +Str libram attractive especially when replacing one that is already threat based (obstruction).

Im in the same debate myself. Right now i just did some testing and the libram O Str Proc Is basicly a 100% up time once it procs the first time. The dodge is nice. but what if ur Avodiance "caped" already. DOdge then is gonna do muc for ya. Im thinking the Libram O str if ur Avoidance "caped" and if not get the Libram O Dodge proc


Lemme know on thoughts though.

how does the Valiance libram with 200 strength stands against LOo in termns of threat? anyone can tell me?

we have on 1 side 200*1.15*1.1=253 strength 95% uptime, so 240strength.
-----> 156 BV, 480 AP

Other side, 352*1.3= 457 BV


so, is 300 BV better threat than 480AP?

seeing this viewtopic.php?f=6&t=20823&start=885#p474956 10 str = around 30BV if not caped?
so 352BV would be the same threat as 117 strength right? which would make the new strength libram better for threat?

jcamper1337 wrote:Im in the same debate myself. Right now i just did some testing and the libram O Str Proc Is basicly a 100% up time once it procs the first time. The dodge is nice. but what if ur Avodiance "caped" already. DOdge then is gonna do muc for ya. Im thinking the Libram O str if ur Avoidance "caped" and if not get the Libram O Dodge proc

I'm assuming you mean "capped", since this guy is "caped":



Btu there's no cap for avoidance as far as I'm aware. Well, theoretically there is if you can get to 102.4% combined dodge/parry/miss, but I'm fairly certain that's impossible with current gear and DR.

If you're block-capped and the Libram procs, all that'll happen is that some of your block rating will be effectively wasted for the duration of the proc.

Dodge is subject to diminishing returns If I have 23% pre DR raid buffed does the dodge from dodge libram halp that much?

+200 str with nearly 100% uptime is a good increase in my dps and in case of 10-mans also in raid dps. If boss dies 2 seconds earlier it means that I take one less hit throughout the fight and since I'm in casual 10-man guild (Sometimes we cooperate with other 10-man guild for U25) this is alot.

But since my gear is a mix of everything 10-man I guess non set shoulders and T9 gloves are higher priority for me.

I'm assuming you mean "capped", since this guy is "caped":



Btu there's no cap for avoidance as far as I'm aware. Well, theoretically there is if you can get to 102.4% combined dodge/parry/miss, but I'm fairly certain that's impossible with current gear and DR.

If you're block-capped and the Libram procs, all that'll happen is that some of your block rating will be effectively wasted for the duration of the proc.[/quote]


LOL i like the pic. and yeah I ment Capped

But hitting 102.4 is not impossible. The macros out are damn close to showing the correct "Block Cap" Currently im sitting at around 103.88% avoidance according to

/run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable at 102.4%% - you have %.2f%%", GetDodgeChance() + GetBlockChance() + GetParryChance() + 5 + 1/(0.0625 + 0.956/(GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL)/4.91850*0.04))))

Which i pulled off these forms which if i remember correctly was dived from a thread on Elitis Jerks. Im thinking the Libram of STR is an awesome Addition to a threat gear set while Libram of DOdge is nice for bosses that Hit hard as all hell. Right now though With me not in a raiding guild with mininmal time to raid Im thinking T9.25 shoulders and gloves are the way to go for the 2 pice bonus to be running 2 pice t8.5 and 2 pice t9.25

Again its all depend on what u want to do. Ive seen both librams in use by tanks and the One using the Libram o Str Liked it alot more then the one useing the dodge one. Yet its all dependent on what kinda of tank you are and what u THink might help. Personally Im still using the LOO because im too cheep or lazy to upgrade.

Also Ragingsoul on the comment of the BV and AP from Libram o Str

I think that no matter if ur "Capped" the BV is nice because in turn it turns into to more migidation. Insted of only blocking 1500 dmg you might get leys say 1656 blocked dmg which means thats 1.6k less hp u lose and one less heal the healer needs to throw at you to conserv its mana on lets say General Vajax.


on final not this is only my thoughts. Im kinda rusty since i recently started playing again so maybe i can get one of the old timers to confirm or shoot down what i just said

jcamper1337 wrote:
Also Ragingsoul on the comment of the BV and AP from Libram o Str

I think that no matter if ur "Capped" the BV is nice because in turn it turns into to more migidation. Insted of only blocking 1500 dmg you might get leys say 1656 blocked dmg which means thats 1.6k less hp u lose and one less heal the healer needs to throw at you to conserv its mana on lets say General Vajax.


on final not this is only my thoughts. Im kinda rusty since i recently started playing again so maybe i can get one of the old timers to confirm or shoot down what i just said

I know LOo is more mitigation, but I was asking for threat only. we will be loosing 5% aggro, as well as first and 2nd Tier bonues from T8 as threat. So wanted to know about this.

Ragingsoul wrote:I know LOo is more mitigation, but I was asking for threat only. we will be loosing 5% aggro, as well as first and 2nd Tier bonues from T8 as threat. So wanted to know about this.

Im thinking Libram o Str is gonna be the new one with the threat nerf. Though I dont think it will affect us as bad as It looks right off the bat. Im thinking Im gonna pick up the T9 shoulder then gloves then Libram. Not really sure. THe libram of dodge just dosent look to apeasing to me I like something with a better chance of uptime

yeah well, the dodge libram gets worst as your gear becomes better. with my actual gear, it's only 3% more dodge unbuffed, so less buffed, with more agility, it's like a dodge trinket, without the on demand ability.
I still don't know what to take after the ring, gonna see what drops this week, maybe I can get the stamina trinket from faction champion, then I will buy the strength libram, since I won't get dkp for a token for some time.

jcamper1337 wrote:
But hitting 102.4 is not impossible. The macros out are damn close to showing the correct "Block Cap" Currently im sitting at around 103.88% avoidance according to

/run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable at 102.4%% - you have %.2f%%", GetDodgeChance() + GetBlockChance() + GetParryChance() + 5 + 1/(0.0625 + 0.956/(GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL)/4.91850*0.04))))

That is not avoidance...that is avoidance + block chance.

If you had 102.4% AVOIDANCE then you would never get hit by a physical attack vs 83 boss.

Adding extra dodge means you take less overall damage.

A % of attacks that would have been (partially) blocked (and still let a lot of the damage hit you) will now be dodge.
Dodge = 0 damage (again physical attacks I am talking here).

I continue to want to stab people who use the block cap (old uncrushable) figures and call that "avoidance".... grr.

I think this may upset me more than the defense-cap thing. at least the devs even admitted that they call it a cap internally, even if it's not.

/rant

I grabbed the Triumph shoulders last week and I am approaching 25 badges again. I think I am going to grab the +Str libram since I am upwards of 27% dodge raid buffed now. Once heroic mode opens up for 10/25 man I figure badges will really start to flow in and then I will grab the dodge libram but I decided to use the Str for my main gear set.