Confused by trend that I see.

okay guys/ladies i am very confused by what i am seeing. I really need a lot of help. i see a lot of pallies gearing and not even getting block rating above 20%. With the change and all i can understand but. Pallies are ment to have BV and rating so why is it that pallies are tend to get away for it. And the even bigger question is most aren't even getting gear with BV on it and stacking dodge. With diminishing returns why would anyone do this. Plz all the help i can get would be helpful

BTW my stats are 23.98 dodge / 17.33 perry / 26.50 block /stopping 2330 damage.

Block also has diminishing returns on it now.

If you look at it in context: Let's say you stack block, for you, you block 2330 damage per hit. So on 20k hits, you're shaving off 11.65% damage. Which is a nice chunk of mitigation. Now, what if you dodged that entire hit? That's 20k healing you've just spared your healers from healing you.

Block is mostly a "filler" stat. It's great for hitting 102.4%, but if it comes down to it. I'd rather dodge full incoming hits more than I would rather block a percentage of it.

Nikachelle wrote:Block also has diminishing returns on it now.

I thought BV only had DR for the purpose of ShoR? Did I miss something?

But basically Nik's right, the only purpose BR has is for getting you to the Block Cap. And to my mind, the Block Cap's secondary to ramping your Avoidance as high as it will go.

Ulushnar wrote:

Nikachelle wrote:Block also has diminishing returns on it now.

I thought BV only had DR for the purpose of ShoR? Did I miss something?

Hmmm, I could be totally out to lunch, but I was pretty sure that block as a whole had diminishing returns on it. Since I've never bothered to stack block before, I haven't looked into it very much.

ShoR (and Shield Slam too I think) got diminishing returns put on it in 3.2 to make up for the fact we just got given retarded amounts of BV. As far as I know, the Damage reduction part of BV was never subject to DR, although it does become less significant the harder the bosses hit.

I agree with Ulushnar and Nika. T7 content was fine for BR and BV as the bosses didn't hit hard. Then T8 Ulduar came along and the bosses really hit hard so block rating and to a certain extent block value [as the pair usualy went together on gear] lost their appeal as tanks geared not to get hit and took the loss of a little threat from reduced BV because it didn't matter.

It may be, with T9 that tanks again aim for high block value as our gear is getting better itemised as we work through this expansion. A few people on this forum have impressive BV sets already. Block rating however is not as important as it once was to push crushing blows off the table as at level 80 we cannot be crushed. It is at best a filler stat to get you close to the block cap of 102.4%.

Barathorn

Gear with block value that doesn't also have block rating is a good thing. I'm looking to stack more of it for both threat and mitigation.

But block rating is expensive for little return. I just don't want to pay for it on my gear.

I am one of these tanks that you see. My main tanking set only has about 13-14% block, with none whatsoever coming on gear. It just doesnt matter for bosses in my opinion. With holy shield already having near 100% uptime meaning i basically have 40+% block, I dont really worry about it except for trash and naxx. Now when we do our alt Naxx runs, I have a set with 30% static block and around 3.3k block value unbuffed, which is fun since the trash and a lot of the bosses do almost 0 damage to me.

I have an 'alright' block set that I hardly ever use. I honestly don't use my blockset unless I'm grinding in Icecrown or old instances(TBC and earlier). I'm sad to say that I've never had the ability to(Or just never realized it) put togeather a 102.4% set.

Even pre-raid, I don't see the value of block rating and block value over avoidance stats, outside of giggling at the 9-10k crits from SHOR(fwee).

Nikachelle wrote:Block also has diminishing returns on it now.

If you look at it in context: Let's say you stack block, for you, you block 2330 damage per hit. So on 20k hits, you're shaving off 11.65% damage. Which is a nice chunk of mitigation. Now, what if you dodged that entire hit? That's 20k healing you've just spared your healers from healing you.

Block is mostly a "filler" stat. It's great for hitting 102.4%, but if it comes down to it. I'd rather dodge full incoming hits more than I would rather block a percentage of it.

One other thing I would take away from this argument. Say the average tank that is stacking dodge/avoidance has 1300 BV (someone correct me if this is high/low for a MT set). Even if they DON'T dodge the attack, they might block it and they're only getting hit for 1k more than you are w/ 2300 BV. While it does add up over time of course, as most people will tell you, with 20k+ hits, it's a drop in the bucket.

That's how I look at it at least.

Okay people that is not what i mean, Blizzard set up pallies to take damage there for we get heals which refill our rage (mana). Now as a pally i would rather take less damage, then NO damage and lose threat cause i have no way to generate mana cause i get on heals, even though sanc, helps with this. but all in all SB from what i understand it to be is the crushing blow. Personally as a tank, as much as you would think we are not going to get hit, We are going to get hit and hit hard. so i would rather stop 4k of a 30k hit than eat it all. but i never said that i should not have dodge. in truth i think dodge is very important. i have almost 28% in raids, and 26% SB. Unlike a lot of pallies that stack dodge, they have like 28 to 30% dodge unbuffed. But they fall hughly short when it comes to SB and i'm talking 15% or less. now the higher all your stats are is a way better to mitigate. but i might be totally off but perry is horrible as mitigation. so unless my understanding of being a tank is that far off. having 30% dodge and 20% perry and 15% block is pretty bad for a tank not getting hit is a good thing but you are going to get hit and a healer, I'm sure of this would rather see a 25k hit on a tank then a 28 to 30k hit. and the pallies stacking dodge really can't have much BV either 1k compaired to 2330 unbuffed IMO is way better.

i would appraciate any constructive opinions on this. PLZ and TY

If you're tanking a raid boss, then you're going to get it at least 40% of the time for a not inconsiderable amount of damage. That, plus BoSanc, perma-Divine Plea, Judgement of Wisdom and Replenishment should be enough to keep you going. If it isn't, then it's time to look for harder content or spec 2/2 into SA. But honestly the only time I'm oom is if I don't drink every few pulls in heroics.

Taking more damage on progression content is almost never a good idea for a tank. Period.

That said, there's something very wrong with the numbers you quote. If you have 28% dodge and 26% Block Chance, then unless your parry chance is something like 9%, then you're going to be wasting some of that Block Rating anyway. Conservatively assuming approximately 19% parry and 9.4% Miss chance from defense, then you're looking at being 10% over the 102.4% block cap.

Remember that anything after 102.4% Dodge/Parry/Block/Miss chance with Holy shield up is essentially wasted, and Block's the first thing to "fall off" the table.

Oh, and FYI, the Return key's your friend. Walls of text are easier on the eye if they're broken up into paragraphs.

The argument I seem to be seeing here is what your perception of a tank is. You *want* to take loads of incoming damage, but there isn't enough in this game (currently) to mitigate the amount of damage you want to take. If we COULD shave off 50% damage from a hit, then we'd all be over the moon about blocking. But it doesn't do that. So we have to work around what's available to us in game, regardless of whether or not our perceptions of what a tank should be, fit into that.

Also, to nitpick... parry isn't mitigation, it's avoidance.

Can you please link your armory? I'd really like to be able to look at your stats and gear.

Testt, there is no current need to gear for block rating and block value. The content currently available dictates how you should gear. For progression it is all about avoidance and health. Divine plea, 1/2 Spiritual Attunement and Judgement of Wisdom give us all the mana we need to generate full threat. We rarely get mana starved anymore and we don't need to rely on high shield block rating or over say 45% including holy shield for mana returns.

25% dodge, 20% Parry and 15% Shield Block Rating looks pretty good to me so that I am around 100% pre raid buffs which would take me over the 102.4%. I only use Block Rating as a filler to get me where I need to be, in the ideal world I wouldn't have a single piece of gear with it on given the choice as long as I could maintain around 100% block cap.

This is how Paladins are in WotLK, although block rating and block value sets can work, they are not as efficient for the majority of content after Naxx in my opinion.

Barathorn

I think the proper wording for a tank is to be able to "withstand" as much damage as possible, which is quite different than "taking" alot of damage. Taking alot of damage implies that you take alot of hp's worth of damage, whereas withstanding alot of damage can both mean before or post mitigation/avoidance.

You may have mitigated 50% worth of damage and taken the other 50%, but you have still withstood the complete hit. Or you may have completely dodged an attack, but you have still withstood the complete attack and lived to tale the tale.