Hero's Surrender VS Wall of Terror

Hero's Surrender didnt drop for you? Wall of Terror did? So what are you going to do? Do you take it or give it to the other tank in hopes of getting HS the next time? Honestly, WOT isnt a bad choice, in fact, it could be seen as a little bit better if you gave it a chance. This'll provide a deeper look into your upgrade choices for shields, and if you'll be passing up that WOT when you next clear naxx and HS doesnt drop for you.


Hero's Surrender
7722 Armor
216 Block
+56 Strength
+84 Stamina
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 80
Equip: Increases defense rating by +29 (5.9 at 80)
Equip: Increases your dodge rating by 30 (0.8% at 80).
Equip: Increases your parry rating by 30 (0.6% at 80).

Wall of Terror
7890 Armor
221 Block
+63 Strength
+63 Stamina
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 80
Equip: Increases defense rating by +42 (8.8 at 80)
Equip: Increases your dodge rating by 24 (0.6% at 80).
Equip: Increases your shield block rating by 31 (2.0% at 80).



Issue: Def vs Stam

With WOT, you get 13 def.
With HS, you get 21 stam.
Now with in comparison to gemming, the highest gems are 12 def and 24 stam respectively. Thus, having more defense gives you a little more room to gem up for stamina, effectively gaining at least 3 more points in so if you took the WOT.

Issue: Avoidance.

HS gives you a combined avoidance of 1.4%, whereas WOT gives you a full 2.6%, provided you are not block capped, the WOT would win over, allowing you to take better upgrades for dodge+parry rating than valor gear if you are avoiding BV.

With WOT, you also gain more armor, more block value, more strength. So really, which would you choose now?

Get both. HS is a sexy shield imo, but if you outgear stuff and your dps is very good then terror all the way.

Evangelia wrote:Now with in comparison to gemming, the highest gems are 12 def and 24 stam respectively. Thus, having more defense gives you a little more room to gem up for stamina, effectively gaining at least 3 more points in so if you took the WOT.

The rare quality defense gem is 16 defense, not 12.

You're referring to block rating as part of avoidance. The generally used terminology on these boards (unless I'm misrembering or there's been a shift in opinion) is that dodge, parry, and miss contribute to avoidance, block contributes towards block cap. So to make it clear, your combined dodge + parry + miss will be higher using Hero's Surrender than it will be with Wall of Terror. You'll be closer to block cap with Wall of Terror.

My opinion on this is that in the current state of the game, the most demanding bosses to tank at the moment favour the extra health and avoidance from the Hero's Surrender over the increase in armor and block value from Wall of Terror, and that within 3-4 Naxx/Sarth-drakes clears it is fairly straightforward to be over defense cap without using low quality gear just, and to be pretty much at block cap when raid buffed. If no other tank wanted WoT when it dropped I'd pick it up for a farm set, but when tanking Malygos or attempting Sarth with drakes (at least, if I'm on Sarth), I'll stick with my Hero's Surrender.

This is from the point of view of someone for whom Sartharion + 2/3 is still progress, and whose guild has only downed Malygos twice. If they were on farm I'd have a different opinion, probably, but for progression I favour the avoidance/hp shield. I am block capped with GotW and shaman/dk agility buff in the gear set I use for tanking Malygos anyway.

The rare quality defense gem is 16 defense, not 12.

Good point, sorry for not seeing that.

But I like what

Get both. HS is a sexy shield imo, but if you outgear stuff and your dps is very good then terror all the way.

said though, true enough getting both is viable, not alot of gear has block rating, especially if you're not going for the tier stuff with block value and rating on it.

Im basically seeing it as getting more stats via other pieces than tier, so i keep room open for my other items to stack the other avoidance stats than block rating. Any thoughts?

I like Wall of terror more to be honest. First it has more armor and BV. Second with the Block rating you can afford to itemize for your avoidance stats elsewhere to stay block capped.

Ideally, you have both in you bags for different encounters but the chance of that is quite slim.

For the original question. If WoT is an upgrade you damn well know i'm picking it up. I'd rather get an upgrade today then hope for a better upgrade tomorrow.

Honestly - IMO they're sidegrades to each other...

in a perfect world... take both and use whichever fits the encounter...

in the world most of us live in... pick up whichever drops first as an upgrade, and adjust your other gems/enchants/gear accordingly until such a time that you can use both...

I just picked up Wall of Terror, and am perfectly happy with that (not to say I won't roll for a Hero's Surrender if it drops... but I will definitely let someone else who needs it more take first )

phaqueue wrote:I just picked up Wall of Terror, and am perfectly happy with that (not to say I won't roll for a Hero's Surrender if it drops... but I will definitely let someone else who needs it more take first )

That.

You need to remember, block rating is mitigation, not necessarily avoidance (except on low trash).

kenshin648 wrote:You need to remember, block value is mitigation, not necessarily avoidance (except on low trash).

You're mixing up block value and block rating.

Sort of.

Invisusira wrote:

kenshin648 wrote:You need to remember, block value is mitigation, not necessarily avoidance (except on low trash).

You're mixing up block value and block rating.

Sort of.

Ah, right. Wasnt thinking clearly. Fixed now.

we have 3 shield tanks in our guild, both me and my twin prot pally have the wall of terror, the warrior GM has Hero's.

no shield drops since we all got it,

and as other have side, moar shields = win, different gear sets.

What!? No mention of Barricade of Eternity?

It has the Stamina of HS and the Defense of WoT. It's got more parry, and with its defense extra defense makes up like .6 Avoidance for Dodge/Parry and then .6 block (not counting diminishing returns). It just lacks strength and the graphic to make it look awesome.

However I think if HS and WoT I'll go for WoT first to replace my Barricade of Eternity.

Noob moment, but I think I DE'd my Heroes Surrender when I got my Barricade. On hindsight I should have kept both.

At work now so I can't check but I have this sinking feeling...

Longadin wrote:Noob moment, but I think I DE'd my Heroes Surrender when I got my Barricade. On hindsight I should have kept both.

At work now so I can't check but I have this sinking feeling...

>.< And i'm still stuck with this stratholme shield and that lousy BV one from grob10 :< Giev any of those 3 TBH -.-

Didn't take Hero's Surrender simply because at the time, I couldn't afford to drop that much defense rating (was using Titansteel).

I took Wall Of Terror and haven't looked back since. It's really got it all; threat, defense, decent stam and avoidance.

Rhiannon wrote:My opinion on this is that in the current state of the game, the most demanding bosses to tank at the moment favour the extra health and avoidance from the Hero's Surrender over the increase in armor and block value from Wall of Terror, and that within 3-4 Naxx/Sarth-drakes clears it is fairly straightforward to be over defense cap without using low quality gear just, and to be pretty much at block cap when raid buffed. If no other tank wanted WoT when it dropped I'd pick it up for a farm set, but when tanking Malygos or attempting Sarth with drakes (at least, if I'm on Sarth), I'll stick with my Hero's Surrender.

This is from the point of view of someone for whom Sartharion + 2/3 is still progress, and whose guild has only downed Malygos twice. If they were on farm I'd have a different opinion, probably, but for progression I favour the avoidance/hp shield. I am block capped with GotW and shaman/dk agility buff in the gear set I use for tanking Malygos anyway.

Seconded by a Twilight Vanquisher who uses Hero's Surrender.

WoT looks so much cooler though that I plan on picking it up for a block set.

theckhd wrote:

Rhiannon wrote:My opinion on this is that in the current state of the game, the most demanding bosses to tank at the moment favour the extra health and avoidance from the Hero's Surrender over the increase in armor and block value from Wall of Terror, and that within 3-4 Naxx/Sarth-drakes clears it is fairly straightforward to be over defense cap without using low quality gear just, and to be pretty much at block cap when raid buffed. If no other tank wanted WoT when it dropped I'd pick it up for a farm set, but when tanking Malygos or attempting Sarth with drakes (at least, if I'm on Sarth), I'll stick with my Hero's Surrender.

This is from the point of view of someone for whom Sartharion + 2/3 is still progress, and whose guild has only downed Malygos twice. If they were on farm I'd have a different opinion, probably, but for progression I favour the avoidance/hp shield. I am block capped with GotW and shaman/dk agility buff in the gear set I use for tanking Malygos anyway.

Seconded by a Twilight Vanquisher who uses Hero's Surrender.

WoT looks so much cooler though that I plan on picking it up for a block set.

Well my personal goal is to go for the avoidance cap with as much parry and block possible, so what I plan to do is instead of stacking on block rating AND value items, I only go for block rating and skimp on block value, hence I end up with more parry and dodge and only use shield block to hit the cap.

I don't think that's what he or she meant, but I can't really decipher what they did mean either.

Evangelia wrote:Well my personal goal is to go for the avoidance cap with as much parry and block possible, so what I plan to do is instead of stacking on block rating AND value items, I only go for block rating and skimp on block value, hence I end up with more parry and dodge and only use shield block to hit the cap.

(emphasis mine)

1st underline:
"Avoidance cap" would have to mean what Majiben suggested, but Block wouldn't contribute towards that at all. So they're either confused about what Blocking does, or they meant "Block cap."

2nd underline:
Skimping on block value and focusing on rating would certainly get you to the block cap faster, which would agree better with the previous comment if it was "block cap," but...

3rd underline:
This makes no sense no matter how you slice it. First of all, how does stacking block rating have any effect on your parry/dodge? The statement about using shield block (Holy Shield, I assume) to hit the cap doesn't make as much sense either in this scenario, unless they meant that they were stacking block value and skimping on rating. But even in that case, the 1st statement about avoidance cap doesn't make sense, unless maybe they meant stacking parry and dodge?

But in any case, I don't see what this has to do with my comment, so I don't know why he or she replied to me. Hero's has higher avoidance and health, WoT has higher armor and block value. WoT is a great trash tanking / block value item, so it would be a nice pick-up for that sort of gear set. I'd still use Hero's on most of the harder-hitting bosses.