The Hardened Heart of Kaz'rogal

okay i just want a general consensus on whether or not it's a pally shield, warrior shield or both. I read the thread and it's gets kind of jaded.

why i ask is the warrior tank in my guild is a little irrate i grabbed it he says that a)it's a warrior shield b) i have other options.

care to elaborate with any pearls of wisdom

Ask him to show you another option with defensive stats. Illidari Runeshield is nice for trash and threat heavy/mitigation light bosses, but it's not an all-purpose tanking shield.

What I don't get are people that bitch about loot distribution in a DKP system. If a warrior wants to spend his DKP on caster cloth, for example, I don't kvetch about it and nobody else that signed up for a DKP system has the right to, either.

Screw warriors, I want that damn shield.

Tanking Shield is for tanks.
Are you a tank?

Snake-Aes wrote:Tanking Shield is for tanks.
Are you a tank?

yes

I have Illidari and Kazz's shield....I haven't equipped Illidari in about 2 months.

Well, realistically, the highest level "Paladin Tanking" shield in the game is the SSO rep one, which is a tier or two below you.

I would have to go back and look at the stats for sure, but offhand, I would say the shield progression for a paladin tank for raiding would be:

1. Badge Shield / Shatar Shield
2. SSO Shields / Nightbane Shield
3. Aldori Legacy Defender
4. ZA Shield
5. Kaz'rogal's Heart
6. Illidan's Shield
7. Felmyst's Shield

The Illidari rune shield lacks sufficient tanking stats to be a tanking shield, though it is nice for trash if you want an extra shield (handy for hyjal of course).

I would ask your warrior guildie what would be the appropriate shield for you to use at that tier of content. If he points you to the Illidari, remind him that you are a paladin "tank" and that while the shield is ok for trash, it isn't good for boss tanking. Let him know, that the shield slot is typically a slot paladins use for defensive stats over threat (as opposed to the weapon slot, which is the exact opposite) and that it wouldn't make sense for you to give up one of your premier defensive stats slot for a pure threat shield.

I use ZA shield for boss, Illidari for trash.

Had Kaz's drop once, warrior took it, haven't seen it since, don't care too much about it.

jere wrote:1. Badge Shield / Shatar Shield
2. SSO Shields / Nightbane Shield
3. Aldori Legacy Defender
4. ZA Shield
5. Kaz'rogal's Heart
6. Illidan's Shield
7. Felmyst's Shield

The Illidari rune shield lacks sufficient tanking stats to be a tanking shield, though it is nice for trash if you want an extra shield (handy for hyjal of course).

I'll agree with jere. If you want a number for the Illidari Runeshield, I'd put it at 4.5, but only on bosses (due to its armor).

I have four shields..

Aldori Legacy Defender
Bulwark of the Amani Empire
Illidari Runeshield
Kaz'rogal's Hardened Heart

I use Kaz's shield for just about everything except for trash every once in a while, and on shade of akama.

To simply answer the question though... it's a tank shield. If you are a tank then you have a right to it.

Some really quick and dirty numbers (your mileage may vary).
[Illidari Runeshield]
[Kaz'rogal's Hardened Heart]

If we say that white + seal damage makes up 35% of your threat, and you're averaging around 900 TPS, that means:

900 x 0.35 = 315 white+seal TPS
315 x 0.0133 = ~4 extra white+seal TPS from 21 hit rating
34 x 0.5 = 17 TPS from spelldamage on Illidari Runeshield
17 - 4 = 13 TPS difference

Looking at defensive stats, the KHH offers an extra:
28 defense rating = 11.84 = ~1.42% raw avoidance
13 base stam with +15 stam gem x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.06 = ~16 extra stam with Kings and talents

So, ask your warrior if he'd be willing to give up 160 hp and 1.42% avoidance for 13 threat per second. If his answer is no, then he should have no problems with you picking up KHH.

EDIT: This of course assumes there are no other issues to take in mind. For example, if you're a secondary backup OT and he's the full time MT, it's probably in the best interests of the raid to pass the shield to him. This has nothing to do with your class, though.

Where would you place S3 shield? Above or below KHH?

Sarkan-ZdC wrote:Where would you place S3 shield? Above or below KHH?

I'd say it's not as good.

[item=33755]S3 Shield[/item]
[item=30889]Kaz'rogal's Hardened Heart[/item]

You'd gain ~200 armor with the S3 shield, but lose 3 stamina (assuming epic gem). These are relatively normal trade-offs. But then, 31 resilience versus 28 defense rating and 21 hit rating? Should be clear.

You gain 202 armor, lose 3 stam and 1.42% pure avoidance. You'll get more EH with S3, but KHH has the extra avoidance, and the hit doesn't hurt.

If you need the defense, or are still juggling uncrushable, KHH is the clear winner. Otherwise I'd call it mostly a tossup; KHH is still probably better, but if you have S3, don't worry about it.

EDIT: I guess the defense for uncrittable doesn't really matter because of the resilience.

To date, there are no "Paladin Shields" that are for tanking endgame. So if you're not allowed to take it because it's a "Warrior Shield," well, then, wtf? It's different for items like boots, belts, etc because we have properly itemized stuff readily available, but shield? There is no +dmg shield in the game that I would be using.

so, i have a question. if you have..say, two shields..the illidari shield and the shield from za..which is a better boss tanking shield? if block drops off after uncrushability. would the illidari due to the higher armor?

kaz is a prick.

Do NOT google "twink fist".

twinkfist wrote:so, i have a question. if you have..say, two shields..the illidari shield and the shield from za..which is a better boss tanking shield? if block drops off after uncrushability. would the illidari due to the higher armor?

kaz is a prick.

Since I'll most likely get the Illidari runeshield before Kaz (we've only killed him twice, gotten one, but our warrior MT wasn't there and I low-bid it and let the #2 warrior using an SSO shield get and will probably do the same for the warrior MT, probably a higher bid though so I can beat him on other items ) I plan to use it over my ZA shield. 500 armor is a pretty solid amount and threat is nice too. I'll just need to rework my gear a tad to maintain uncrushable in certain gear sets, but that shouldn't be a problem, it's still a gain to use Seventh Tirisfallen or ZA ring over Kara ring to maintain uncrushable.

i used the illidari shield on gorefiend last night and did okay. had around 18700 hp buffed and 29% dodge and 18% parry. the extra threat was nice, but if a pure tanking shield is better, then i'm wondering if i should use the za shield for general boss tanking.

i also refuse to google my own name.

Personally, I swap between IR and my main tanking shield (in my case a Sword Breaker's Bulwark, but the concept stands for KHH as well) depending on what I'm tanking. If I want more threat, I use IR. Otherwise I use my SBB.

Which is "better" depends entirely on what you're tanking.

tyvm fellas maintankadin forums ftw!