Impact of HP generation nerf on gearing

I've swapped to a sword instead of an axe (they were pretty close anyway...might as well get the racial). Otherwise kept things the same as before. We are a very casual raid guild with only 3 bosses down so far so I don't think it will be much of an issue with us.

inthedrops wrote:Last night I just opted to not break rotation, and just live with whatever holy power I have. So if ShoR is up in the rotation, and I only have 2 holy power, so be it.

I'm waiting on the theory craft that says it's better to bork your rotation and miss a GCD in order to get a 2 HP ShoR than it is to use a 1 or 2 HP ShoR. Once I'm in WoG'ing mode, I can safely bork my rotation and wait for 3 HP.

Another thing I stopped doing is DP + Inquisition on the pull. I now definitely DP + ShoR early on just so I can be sure to get one decent attack off in the first 12 seconds.

So thanks for starting this thread, I'm anxious to see what the appropriate thing to do now is.

This might make me a bad tank, but I don't even put Inquisition on my tanking bars. I tried using it and keeping it up for aoe pulls late Wrath after the content patch, but it just never seemed to be worth it. And with dps back then pulling numbers they're doing right now (full 277 fire mages were doing 15k single target. FML) it just seemed like a waste of time. Better to smack them twice with ShoR then once with ShoR+30%.

Little has changed (besides getting far more comfortable with the hp system) and I still don't think it'd be worth my time or hp to use Inquisition when I can just ShoR something, or heck, WoG myself. Prot just doesn't have enough reason without the extended time talent that ret has, to make much use of Inquisition.

Has anyone found a reverse experience? Some pulls or fights where it's advisable to use Inquisition?

I am not even sure capping expertise and getting a bit more hit would do much impact on survivability unless you panic.

I feel satisfied after my raid night with a hit/exp softcap set. For the boss fights where some tank HP could be beneficial I swapped in the +STA trinket in place of the +HIT one, leaving me at ~6% hit. Threat was a no-issue and also survivability was as good as it ever was (my feral tank partner was complaining much louder about the patch). Being able to interrupt, finally, is a godsend.

A change I was also doing was to replace my ShoR glyph with the CS one. The reason is that at least for me and my raid yesterday, recount shows that CS is doing roughly double the damage than ShoR, so a 5% increase to crit/~damage is similar to the effect of the other glyph on average, plus I do get better threat in those fights where most of my HoPo goes to WoG.

This patch, as a whole, definitely did impriove my tanking experience and fun.

Extermi

Solare wrote:This might make me a bad tank, but I don't even put Inquisition on my tanking bars. I tried using it and keeping it up for aoe pulls late Wrath after the content patch, but it just never seemed to be worth it. And with dps back then pulling numbers they're doing right now (full 277 fire mages were doing 15k single target. FML) it just seemed like a waste of time. Better to smack them twice with ShoR then once with ShoR+30%.

Little has changed (besides getting far more comfortable with the hp system) and I still don't think it'd be worth my time or hp to use Inquisition when I can just ShoR something, or heck, WoG myself. Prot just doesn't have enough reason without the extended time talent that ret has, to make much use of Inquisition.

Has anyone found a reverse experience? Some pulls or fights where it's advisable to use Inquisition?

I started using it quite a bit on decent sized AoE trash pulls where I don't have any reason to go nuts on a single target (probably 4+ targets). It causes me to do more damage overall. Additionally, I use it on Maloriak during the dark phase and during the green phase for the same reason. Lots of targets and no need for high threat on any individual target. I say get it on your bars and try mixing it in on some larger heroic dungeon packs or some raid trash packs (like those Phase Twisters at the start of BoT).

Dilvish wrote:I've swapped to a sword instead of an axe (they were pretty close anyway...might as well get the racial). Otherwise kept things the same as before. We are a very casual raid guild with only 3 bosses down so far so I don't think it will be much of an issue with us.

Yeah, I picked up an iLvl 346 sword to replace a same-level axe. Stat-wise I lost 20 mastery rating, but switched the secondary stat from crit-reforged-to-dodge to more-hit-reforged-to-more-dodge. I consider than a very small and reasonable price to pay for 3 expertise.

Besides that, and switching seals, I've done nothing, and I think my threat is fine. Hence, I'll continue to recommend against any other changes.

Solare wrote:Has anyone found a reverse experience? Some pulls or fights where it's advisable to use Inquisition?

I use it all the time.

• Pretty much every pull starts with DP->Inq->AW+AS->J->939. I used to be a staunch supporter of Pull->3xCS->AW+SotR->DP->SotR until we worked out the math and found out it was worse than DP->Inq->pull. Since then, I've converted.
• Any time we're AoE-ing down a group of mobs where there's no one defined primary target (Maloriak adds, many pulls in random heroics).
• Any time I'm AoE-tanking and my threat on the primary target is secure, to boost total damage done over all targets or total threat on secondary targets.
• When I miss 2 or 3 SotRs in a row and get annoyed.

As with anything, it's a tool. You could certainly play without it, but knowing that it's part of your toolbox and using it wisely will make you stronger. I wonder to myself how many of the tanks that complain about low AoE threat aren't prioritizing Inq+HotR; those two alone are enough to hold AoE aggro off of just about anything short of a direct assault on an off-target.

(And even then, I've had cases where Inq+HotR+AS bounce+Cons was able to keep aggro over a moderately-geared DPS attacking the wrong target, especially with a full stack of Vengeance. And remember, I run with 1% hit and 3 expertise!)

Licence to Slay is an outstanding sub-in for hit boost trinket that also provides at least a little parry too. I find it easy to use it plus a HP trinket and still be competitive on EH to other tanks in similar gear, though I plan to drop the HP trinket now for the Hellscream trinket once I gain enough marks. I've been running at around 8% hit and 26 expertise so I can be a stable interrupt source but it really depends on your unique raiding environment.
Stable Holy Power generation and a self-WoG with the Prime Glyph is probably worth the CTC I lose on some fights but for normal modes it's about the same either way... You can help your healers by taking less damage or by dealing more damage. I guess I like big numbers too, but I can't lie that I'm happy to be able to intterupt.