[Druid] Bear Discussion

Amirya wrote:

Astronomic wrote:O, I misunderstood you. I thought you ment it like "You might want to dodge more so you don't get hit since you get hit harder"

Nah, he needs to dodge more so he doesn't have a pack of 5 or 6 charhounds eating his furry ass.

(They don't like the taste of plate, though. Or else the healers like me better than him!)

well since you are dating our holy priest.....


and yes plate classes do get a benefit from agil

they still get crit...

bldavis wrote:I'm not sure about pallies but warriors and bears dont use hit/expir
survivability is more important then an extra 300dps

Well that other thread got closed out so I'll respond here. Not including reforging to dodge expertise to soft cap is a bear's second best green stat after mastery. You may think its crit because more crit = more savage defense procs right? Well with more expertise you will gain more crits per minute than with an equal amount of crit rating.

i based my previous post on ask mr robot refoging suggestions
im not sure if i am at soft cap or not....>.>

Looking for some unput.

Me

1.) I know I don't have any enchants. I just dinged, and I'm making this guy "earn" his enchants off D/E mats from runs, selling things, etc... I know that I have 20agi/30 stam gem where 40 agi's should go. (chest / Relic) those were 40g each, 40 agi's are 250 right now. They will get changed.

2.) I know I have a "weird gem" in the boots. It is for Meta activation.

3.) Do I want the earthen ring Head Enchant? Or the Ramkahen?
4.) Same thing with Therazane?
5.) How's my spec? Look right?

Any other tips/tricks?

i go with earthen ring, but iirc rahkahen is more dodge (im too lazy to change it)
therazane you want the agil one

spec looks ok
esp for gearing up

the only weird thing about your boot gem is its not shifting or pussiant
the one you have is ok

Thanks BL. I went with the dodge / stam gem because it was sitting in the Gbank, and I will only be using it until I get another yellow slot.

I think you look fine to tank troll runs. Maybe a crafted belt if you have the means to get one, but I'm sure you have your eye on something. Mainly, just get in there and smash stuff. Nothing is reactive like Pally or DK, you just have to thrash around and keep aggro, and you will probably have your healer compliment you just because you know how to not stand in shit.

I'm waiting on the crafted belt to be "crafted" and mailed back to me currently, yes.

Well, I will give a troll run a go tonight and see how it works out. I've been a little sad so far in normal heroics. Threat hasn't been an issue........ because I've been top dps

hell there are times when im competeing for top slots in trolls even

if you have any questions, just catch me online, or PM me here or in game

looks like you are well on your way though!

Been on site for a while and finally registered. I have a ton of toons due to severe case of Alt-idas / easy to tire of pressing same buttons doing same thing. However, I have found that I really enjoy playing the Druid. Finally got around to leveling one, and wow did it go fast. And it is nice ot be able to do so many different things (and man if INSTA-Flight-Form doesn’t spoil ya I don’t know what will)….and its really nice for herbalism seein as you don’t have to change form. In any case, I dinged 85 recently, and want to TANK. I have no desire to run anything other than the new HoT Heroics due to gear being really crappy from anything else. I have crafted the 377 PvP Vicious leather set, reforged to 40 percent dodge. I had made a 359 Polearm Scythe thing. Have some enchants, 2 decent trinkets (Alch/another BoE one). Self buffed closing in on 200K health with 40 percent dodge and trying for expertise as second go-to stat. Do you see this as being viable for tankin those runs and getting some PvE gear for DS raid. I actuallly already qualify for the Raid Finder, but read so much crap about people hating on others in PvP gear. But as a Feral Bear….really….I can shell out 12K plus DPS while tanking…..in PvP gear….is that horrible? Thoughts….

PVP gear is viable for bears only, as our main stats (agil, stam, armor) are all tied to ilvl
but really the pvp gear needs to be higher ilvl then the raid tier or you are better off with PVE gear

4.3 heroics are a great place to start, and if you have tanked LFR before, nothing changes
i would suggest running the first few with guildies, pref an experienced bear if you have access to one, just to get the basics down

if you can provide a armory lnk, or at least a toon name and server, myself and the other bears on here would be able to help more

Thanks for input, when I meant i recently dinged, i meant like last nite. Havent played him at 85 yet except to unlock firelands for ring and Thrall Q-line for cloak. I was in leveling greens and blues and that just sucked. I got all that gear, and did some HoT runs as kitty (I have a Bear/Cat hybrid spec right now not pure DPS or pure tank....and did fine was usually second on meters. But I was wanting to tank them now as I like the shorter ques, free loots (sack of tank que joy).....and being the leader / pace setter. Thanks again for response.

and we dont have a Bear guildie tank. We have multiple kitties and a gang of restos (none of whom are remotley interested in tanking)...we had a bear in Wrath but after the Cata changes he all but Nerd quit WoW and was all up in arms about how they killed Bears (which is partially why I didnt roll one for so long)....but he must have been reall spoiled by wrath casue my current Cata Bear is really fun / strong.

So I sauntered back over to my old (Original) Alliance server this weekend. Gave my Hunter Main a quick once over / friend check in / Mogg investigate. And ran across an old level 60ish Druid I had been leveling over there. I must have race changed him at Cata launch to Worgen because I think I started him as a NE in Wrath. My comment is this, why couldn’t they have made the Worgen “Cat” for more Worgen like / dog like / or used their “mount form” instead. The fur around the collar discerns them from NE druids but it isn’t much difference. The Tauren/Troll difference is really visable. Feels like they kinda weren’t sure how to go about bear/cat form for werewolves (not that I would be either)….thoughts?...

Hey BL….with Bear Tanks being the only tanking class where Mast < another stat (in our case AGI/STA for starters)….how do you trinket? STA trinkets / AGI Trinkets…..the Tol Barad one(s) are decent starter trinks for the other classes, but having all that Mastery decent? I am still using my crafted Alchy AGI or STA one in addition to Unheeded Warning which is big AGI plus AP boost. But looking to upgrade trinket(s) first with Valor points….thoughts?
Also, what piece(s) would YOU upgrade first from Valor Points if all of your current (chest/legs/hands )gear had the same iLevel?

Upgrading always the biggest upgrade (stat-wise) is generally the way to go.

Worldie wrote:Upgrading always the biggest upgrade (stat-wise) is generally the way to go.

this ^^

my first upgrades were cloak and ring i think

when you get to a high enough gear level, pvp gear is actually better due to extra stam/agil but you have to be pretty high gear level for that to override mastery you get from pve gear

Aoaga wrote:Hey BL….with Bear Tanks being the only tanking class where Mast < another stat (in our case AGI/STA for starters)….how do you trinket? STA trinkets / AGI Trinkets…..the Tol Barad one(s) are decent starter trinks for the other classes, but having all that Mastery decent? I am still using my crafted Alchy AGI or STA one in addition to Unheeded Warning which is big AGI plus AP boost. But looking to upgrade trinket(s) first with Valor points….thoughts?
Also, what piece(s) would YOU upgrade first from Valor Points if all of your current (chest/legs/hands )gear had the same iLevel?

Fluid Death is an amazing trinket for its level - and remains one of the best starter trinkets. It's certainly an upgrade over the Alchemy trinkets. UW is also not that great - but it depends what your options are. Do you find yourself in a position where you can farm Firelands, even on normal mode?

As far as which pieces you would go for from Valor, like with any class, it's a tradeoff of what you can get vs. what's the bigger upgrade to start. Obviously the Chest has the more stat points allocated so a chest upgrade is bigger, but there are no Neck options whereas you might get an LFR chest, and so on.

Bear in mind that Mastery for Bears is only inferior to Dodge - and even there many, many Bears are comfortable going for Mastery and not dodge and using the fact that fights give them the option to go into Cat to push as much throughput as possible. But basically if you go for Agi above everything, and like any tank, use trinkets situationally (e.g. Mirror for magic fights) or based on content, liek using a Stam trinket if you feel for that specific fight (e.g. madness) it's necessary and so on.

To go a bit into PvP gear, PvP gear that is one tier above (e.g. 377 PvP > 359) what you're wearing is generally an upgrade. Mew's a tool that can help you make that kind of choice since it supports a Bear sim.

Thanks for the info / advice guys. I only use the current trinks I have due to availability of them when I hit 85. Unheeded Warning isn’t even that great for kitty DPS, but its better than some green crapper fro leveling. I will probably be spending my Valor on trinkets first, due to my belief that they are the most immediate upgrade for me. I do the same for PvP gear, as the trinkets we wear for PvE have Zero Res on them so that’s a huge boost there. Good looking out on the PvP gear iLvl being important to figure into when it proves to be an upgrade. I know the helm in particular (for other classes too due to mastery) is better than 378 stuff.

I was finally able to get on Maintankadin from home and check out some of your guys armory links…very nice indeed…BL tell Amirya….great looking Moggs there….!

lol i will
glad to help

if someone gives you crap about pvp gear, just ignore them or if you are feeling nice then inform them that for bears (and bears only) pvp gear is actually better for PVE

as i have said i am working on getting the PVP neck at least (i lose alot of mastery switching rings)

if someone gives you crap about pvp gear, just ignore them or if you are feeling nice then inform them that for bears (and bears only) pvp gear is actually better for PVE

Telling someone that would be incredibly foolish considering the baseline atm for PvE gear is 378 from Justice Points. The PvP gear needs to be higher than the corresponding PvE gear to be even close to worth it, and even then the gain from using PvP gear is minute unless you're cutting massive swaths in upgrades.

It's potential placeholder for some slots, and that's as far as it goes. That's true for literally everyone. Even as plate tanks, you can justify using 377 pvp plate over 318 greens.

Both Cameo and 397 Choker of the Vanquished Lord are better than the 403 PvP neck (Cameo's ever so slightly worse if you never reforge away the Haste, no contest if you're reforging Haste to Mastery/Dodge as you should - Choker's flat out better even with full Haste, and in all the cases I'm assuming no reforging to Dodge involved because, well, at this point there's very little use for that anyway, but that would push the gap even further), and obtaining Cameo is lol VP.

http://code.google.com/p/mew-wow-druid-model/

Mew. Live it. Love it.

im pretty sure i mentioned that it has to be the higher teir of pvp gear
and i was basing my pvp recommendations on rawr, and reforging haste/crit to dodge/mastery

mew and rawr are both good tools, pick one and go with it
edit: i use rawr just b/c i like following theroycrafting and since i have yet to find a site like MTadin for bears, i go with EJ

bldavis wrote:im pretty sure i mentioned that it has to be the higher teir of pvp gear
and i was basing my pvp recommendations on rawr, given reforging haste to dodge or mastery

way to read the rest of the thread /smirk

I did read the thread, my point is that it no more applies to Bears than any other class so trying to talk about it being for Bears only or even trying to justify to other people that the PvP gear is better would be wrong - and probably cause other people to flame him more.

Both Rawr and Mr. Robot (which have been mentioned throughout the thread) have poor understanding of Bears. Mew is the most comprehensive tool for Bear/Kitty use atm.
The Cameo/Choker/Gladiator's Neck comparison was for you, especially since I can note that you do have both Cameo and the Gladiator's Neck. The Gladiator's Neck is only a half-tier above, and not good enough to outdo the Cameo.

http://theincbear.com/forums/index.php
TIB is the home of Feral-ness right now.

yes mr robot is shite for bears, i saw that and have since stopped using it
if i hadnt mentioned that, im sorry my failure for not keeping this thread up to date

yes pvp gear IS viable for bears only, due to the sheer amount of stam and agil we get from the higher level gear, but this applies ONLY if you are getting the highest tiers of PVP gear (ie conquest point gear)

lets leave the pissing match out of this thread though and in PMs only
(btw, i edited my post to take out the asshole bit, can you fix your quote pls, since you were able to post within about 30 seconds of me, while i was editing mine)


edit (again):
having taken a look at mew and rawr, yes mew has a nice sim and is probably great for sims, but the thing i love about rawr is it gives you an upgrade list, and gemming/gearing suggestions

sorry but sticking with rawr, it hasnt steered me wrong, and when/if it does ill come back and admit i was wrong

yes mr robot is shite for bears, i saw that and have since stopped using it
if i hadnt mentioned that, im sorry my failure for not keeping this thread up to date

yes pvp gear IS viable for bears only, due to the sheer amount of stam and agil we get from the higher level gear, but this applies ONLY if you are getting the highest tiers of PVP gear (ie conquest point gear)

lets leave the pissing match out of this thread though and in PMs only
(btw, i edited my post to take out the asshole bit, can you fix your quote pls, since you were able to post within about 30 seconds of me, while i was editing mine)


edit (again):
having taken a look at mew and rawr, yes mew has a nice sim and is probably great for sims, but the thing i love about rawr is it gives you an upgrade list, and gemming/gearing suggestions

sorry but sticking with rawr, it hasnt steered me wrong, and when/if it does ill come back and admit i was wrong

I'm not really interested in it as a pissing match, but if Rawr told you the 403 Gladiator's Neck is better than Cameo, it already steered you wrong to begin with *shrug*. There is no PvP gear, even from Conquest Points, worth using from a survivability standpoint, unless it's in a slot that by nature is hard to upgrade (e.g. weapon and possibly shoulders - better pieces are easily obtainable for every other slot).

can you show me where in mew it shows what gear is an upgrade, or is it like female dwarf and i have to find the gear on my own and then input it, test and find out oh i picked the wrong thing

if it is a survivability upgrade, as well as helping the boss die faster....whats the problem?
sure it might be a minor survivability upgrade, but for me at least (no access to heroic DS gear) yes it is an upgrade
those of you who are a bear in heroics, well you have better options then the conq neck