Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

benebarba wrote:also for the ret-swapping tankadins: on H-Hagara, do you just one-tank the trash and stay ret the whole time? We're going to begin attempts on it, and I usually swap to ret before we pull hagara but after we down the trash. It sounds like that wont be an option on Heroic?

The trash and the boss aggroing mechanism doesn't change on heroic, you can clear trash as prot and then respec to ret without any issue.

benebarba wrote:question: I am fairly confident that my memorization of the priority queue is not as good as it could be. I've heard clcret recommended - thoughts/comments?

I am very inexperienced at Ret (I nearly always tank) and found clcret absolutely amazing. Yes, the ret rotation is rather simple and you could just do it unaided, but I suspect clcret makes most players faster at it and quite a lot of top ret dpsers do use it. I could not imagine using something similar with prot, but for ret, I would strongly recommend it. That said, it won't tell you when to use your CDs and these can have a massive effect on your dps - reading some threads like this one will give you some tips for DS, and anyway improved timing will come with experience.

benebarba wrote:question: I am fairly confident that my memorization of the priority queue is not as good as it could be. I've heard clcret recommended - thoughts/comments?

CLC ret is a great reference. But, as mentioned in this thread, even after customization you will often want to deviate from what the add on is suggesting to maximize dps. Mostly concerning when to refresh Inq. This might not be the best example, but during lightning phase it's better to try to save up 3 holypower to refresh your inq right before Hagara gets her feedback debuff then to cast inq on the add if you wont be able to get back up to 3 HP before it dies.

TLDR: Good for refernce but to maximize DPS it shouldn't be followed to the letter.

Thanks for the replies - I may give it a shot as a training aid, until I get a better feel for the priority queue and my options. I've already started getting a better feel for when it may be better to spend a DP proc on refreshing Inq or on Zealotry than dropping an extra TV... getting a timer built into my inq Power Aura definitely helped there. But I occasionally find myself realizing I am not using everything I have when I could and sometimes wasting abilities like HoW during AW.

And WTB less lag on the T13 2pc bonus HP.

benebarba wrote:And WTB less lag on the T13 2pc bonus HP.

It does take some getting used to but that is another place where CLC ret is understandably lacking. After judging it takes about 1 second to register the holy power gain and then changes the graphical queue accordingly, giving you very little time to react unless you are accounting for it in advance.

Another thing that helped me is when a DP proc comes at the same time you have 3 HP (or 2 HP and an HP generator off of CD) and require an Inq refresh is to ignore the Inq refresh until after the TV (or until after the HP generator and the TV when remaining inq time allows for it). It's very tempting to hit Inq right when CLC Ret tells you to but you have to be careful as you want to squeeze as much Inq uptime per GCD used to refresh it as possible. Hope that makes sense... I'm not very well written this morning.

EDIT: For clarity. I have my CLC Ret set up to Prioritize Inq refreshes at 5 seconds remaining, so in the situation described above CLC Ret is telling me to refresh Inq but I can still get in a TV (or a CS/Judgment and a TV) under the current Inq because of the DP proc without letting Inq fall off.

Gab wrote:

benebarba wrote:And WTB less lag on the T13 2pc bonus HP.

EDIT: For clarity. I have my CLC Ret set up to Prioritize Inq refreshes at 5 seconds remaining, so in the situation described above CLC Ret is telling to me refresh Inq but I can still get in a TV (or a CS/Judgment and a TV) under the current Inq because of the DP proc without letting Inq fall off.

Thats exactly what CLC ret is... I'm retri since lvl10... I still use it and will always use it... as a helper... With experience you'll learn that when to ignore it... there are dozens of clc ret A>B>C>D must be ignored...

i have been playing ret as my os and have been using clcret to get me going on the rotation/priority.

i'm not sure if clcret works perfectly right from the off without tweaking the priority list.
can anyone point me to the right place to look for a correct priority string?
(or paste one here for me to look at and use)

thanks

lazy_dave wrote:i have been playing ret as my os and have been using clcret to get me going on the rotation/priority.

i'm not sure if clcret works perfectly right from the off without tweaking the priority list.
can anyone point me to the right place to look for a correct priority string?
(or paste one here for me to look at and use)

thanks

Can't link since i'm at work now.
Elityst jerks has a very good retri section with the semi-optimal rotation. Go check it...

thanks for the tip.....for anyone else wondering it seems this is the way to go.....

inq 3-3-3
normal : inqa inqr cs jhp inqrdp tvdp exoud tvhp exo how hw
zeal : inqa inqr cs inqrdp tvdp exoud tvhp exo how hw
jclash 0

(i haven't tried this combination yet, it's just what was written on the ej forum post)

lazy_dave wrote:normal : inqa inqr cs jhp inqrdp tvdp exoud tvhp exo how hw
zeal : inqa inqr cs inqrdp tvdp exoud tvhp exo how hw
jclash 0

I... er... what language are you speaking here?

I get the "inq/cs/j/tv/exo" parts... but what's with the "a/r/hp/dp/ud"?

The added variables are things like procs, undead mob, etc, that need to be taken into account.

lazy_dave wrote:normal : inqa inqr cs jhp inqrdp tvdp exoud tvhp exo how hw
zeal : inqa inqr cs inqrdp tvdp exoud tvhp exo how hw

from the addon.....

inqa = apply inquisition
inqr = refresh inquisition
cs = crusader strike
jhp = judgement that generates 1 hp
inqrdp = refresh inquisition at dp
tvdp = templar's verdict at dp
exoud = exorcism with guaranteed crit
tvhp = templar's verdict at 3 hp
exo = exorcism
how = hammer of wrath
hw = holy wrath

Aha! Thanks for clarifying. I don't have a ret spec, but these things are nice to know in case I decide to try it out.

lazy_dave wrote:

lazy_dave wrote:normal : inqa inqr cs jhp inqrdp tvdp exoud tvhp exo how hw
zeal : inqa inqr cs inqrdp tvdp exoud tvhp exo how hw

from the addon.....

inqa = apply inquisition
inqr = refresh inquisition
cs = crusader strike
jhp = judgement that generates 1 hp
inqrdp = refresh inquisition at dp
tvdp = templar's verdict at dp
exoud = exorcism with guaranteed crit
tvhp = templar's verdict at 3 hp
exo = exorcism
how = hammer of wrath
hw = holy wrath

so if I understand that queue correctly, it's saying to refresh inquisition on DP procs before TV ? This must be one of those cases where you have to know when to ignore it, because I can't imagine a back-to-back inq refresh is better for DPS than a back-to-back TV if you get 2 procs while you aren't in danger of dropping inq, or a inq refresh then a TV if you were getting low on inq time.

Similarly, what's the reason to prioritize CS or Judgement (with HP) over a TV/exo proc use? I'm assuming because that way it can fill in a dead space?

Because there's no use to hit TV when CS or Judgement are not on CD. It's technically a DPS loss cause now you've wasted a GCD when you could have had 2 Holy Power already generated AND each of them has a chance to proc Divine Purpose, giving you a free TV.

The program does not tell you to refresh Inq unless it's <3 seconds, that's a setting you can adjust.

Fenrìr wrote:Because there's no use to hit TV when CS or Judgement are not on CD. It's technically a DPS loss cause now you've wasted a GCD when you could have had 2 Holy Power already generated AND each of them has a chance to proc Divine Purpose, giving you a free TV.

The program does not tell you to refresh Inq unless it's <3 seconds, that's a setting you can adjust.

Makes sense. I guess I thought that DP procs didn't stack (I knew they can come back to back, but not that you could actually generate 2 procs and use both of them one after the other) and didn't notice that using the proc actually activated a GCD.

DP procs don't "stack" afaik...

What it means is that if you have a DP proc but CS is off of CD and you DON'T already have 3 holy power banked you would be wasting 1.5 seconds of holy power generation to delay the CS. You never want to delay CS if possible.

Example. You are at 1 holy power you cast X and DP procs the next GCD CS will come off of cooldown. You can either use the DP proc or cast CS. You want to use CS bringing you to 2 holy power and then use the DP proc to maximixe holy power generation.

The odds of over writing the DP proc with a new one beacause you delayed using the proc to cast CS are slim.

Gab wrote:The odds of over writing the DP proc with a new one beacause you delayed using the proc to cast CS are slim.

By slim you mean 0, as CS cannot proc DP. Judgement however can, but the probabilities work out such that prioritising judgement over a DP TV is still a gain even if you risk wasting a DP proc.

Rhiannon wrote: By slim you mean 0, as CS cannot proc DP. Judgement however can, but the probabilities work out such that prioritising judgement over a DP TV is still a gain even if you risk wasting a DP proc.

Right, thanks totally forgot about that.