Prot Paladin PvP

Fair enough
_________________
Proudfoot - Stonemaul
"Dwarves are BURLY!"

Passionario,

I dont think we're gonna be so gimped in PvP as you state. There are still pvp talents in the prot tree.

Stoicism (assuming the current typo is a typo)
Guardian's Favor
Divine Guardian (burst 30yard wide mitigation)
Impr HoJ (30 sec cooldown = same cooldown as many other interupts)
Sacred Duty (problem with DS is its use by most pallies as a oh crap button for when youre getting nukt and want to heal. With DG you can now use it mid fight and should to offer group/raid wide mitigation, maybe heal, maybe keep fighting with no melee penalty)
Ardent Defender (it would take god's own 2h crit to leap frog AD in PvP, esp with pvp stam and high resil)
Touched by the Light (zomg prot pallies can have a few decent heals in them without healer gear)
Avenger's Shield (no other class has 30% uptime on daze, not to mention its range and even aoe to an extent)


So we do have things that help make us annoying and provide utility to a group as well as supplimental dps. With 2 on demand short cooldown dmg abilities, and the items I list above, we just cannot be as ignored as we where. Before, being relegated to node camping and flag running was symptomatic of not having much to contribute to a group pvp fight (as all arena and most bgs are). That is changing not just because of net new abilities, but because of itemization and mechanics changes, especially to AP in our coefficients and STR doing double duty to mitigation and AP...I think our outlook is much better than it is now. But if you wanna camp nodes run flags, enjoy. I'll smashing faces with shields and hammers.

In terms of gear, I dont think you are gonna do much good in PvP in raid gear, which is consistent for all specs. Mages get wtfpwnt in pvp without high stam/resil from pvp gear. Same will go for just about any build I'm thinking. You dont have pvp gear on, pvp is gonna be difficult.

There is a problem in our prot tree though, and it's that most of the talents that have alot pvp value have little to no value in MT tanking. Luckily for me, I'm not a progression MT, so I can afford to put some prot talent points into such talents and still do my job in the raid.
_________________
Rexxar, 70 Prot (spec in flux)

Ret PvP in tanking gear works a lot better, honestly.

Half of those PvP talents you listed are taken by every holy paladin. The remaining four don't help us because by the time we see a caster we're already dead.
_________________
Gladiator Psiven, 80 Tankadin
Rival Psivenia, 70 Warriorlol
Psivenne, 60 Bare
Longtime addict of Space - Glory Through Conquest

I think there is some confusion in this thread.

To some folks, "PvP viability" means being competitive against a random bad rogue wearing greens and S1 epics and hitting you from the front. That we can do already, and to an extent I agree that we may be able to fare even better in such situations in WotLK.

To other folks, "PvP viability" means being competitive against a reasonably good PvP player with appropriate spec and playstyle. In my opinion, we still won't be able to be competitive if we have to go deep in prot. There is no PvP gear to support deep prot playstyle either. By going deep in prot one loses either damage scaling or spell power scaling with gear.

By the way, folks should try dueling a good rogue - it's a nice "back to earth" moment - they stun/bleed/kite you to death, and there is nothing you can do about this. Bad rogues and warriors are the ones killing themselves against Holy Shield.
_________________

So, I'm guessing half of you guys in TBC pretty much follow someone around in PVP and autoswing and judge justice on every druid you see. Lol, if you can't afford the respec, atleast get a second set of PVP gear. We are the defensive tank hybrid, that means our talents/skills are more tailored to living rather than killing.

I don't see that many offensive skills in the Prot Tree that can handle putting out burst DPS. However, there are a few that can handle putting out burst healing/saving. Deep WotLK talents pretty much confirm this. Right now, prot in healing gear is actually pretty effective and you can keep your target alive while largely ignoring yourself.

There are roles in each BG's for a Prot Specs (flag runners/capping defender/random AV mob tanker), and I doubt they'll ignore us for future PVP objectives. If your doing arena, though, don't make a fool of yourself.

World PVP, on the other hand, invovles a simple decision: Caster-RUN/Make friends; Melee-laugh and kill.

Yeah, what Gothic said. You can't grab those pure PvP talents in any decent tanking build because we're already like 15 points short of getting all the tanking talents. So the only way to think about Prot PvP is intentionally speccing deep Prot because you think it's a good idea for PvP, and... it's not.

If you really want to PvP badly enough that you will own a set of PvP gear, I can't understand not being willing to respec. My point was that Ret in tanking gear works better than Prot in PvP gear, for the facesmashing/annoyance role you describe. They're still both terrible.

I might not mind some Prot PvP though, because other than running flags, someone has to drive the siege tanks
_________________
Gladiator Psiven, 80 Tankadin
Rival Psivenia, 70 Warriorlol
Psivenne, 60 Bare
Longtime addict of Space - Glory Through Conquest

In WotLK it looks like paladins could have some success in pvp and tanking with the same spec.

You could be an insanely defensive pvp healer as 27/44/0. In pve tanking without Hammer of the Righteous you will lose some threat. You would still be able to tank 5 mans and offtank in a raid. In pvp you would be tough to kill, do decent healing and have a ton of pvp-perk talents.

You could pvp as dps with 0/41/30 or 0/31/40. You should be able to offtank well enough though threat might be an issue until you had great gear. You would gain interesting raid utility (JotW’s mana battery, Repentance’s spammable crowd control) and a few pvp-perk talents.

So I believe it is possible to spec for tanking and still pvp as a paladin in WotLK.
_________________

http://armorylite.com/us/medivh/michaelberea

PvP healing will suck worse than ever as Prot/Holy, all of our Holy viability is now based in Holy Shock -> Infusion of Light. In fact without those instant heals you are less survivable with such a build.

However, Prot/Ret looks promising for World PvP. We'd still lack the resilience to survive in arenas, but we can crit some peoples' faces off while getting ready to go buy a fighter jet.
_________________
Gladiator Psiven, 80 Tankadin
Rival Psivenia, 70 Warriorlol
Psivenne, 60 Bare
Longtime addict of Space - Glory Through Conquest

Honestly I don't see why prot can't be viable in pvp. If wariro prost will then so shoudl paladin prot.

What we lack skill wise for pvp is pretty much the same stuff we lack in pve currently. Spell intrupt, spell reflect, distance closer, etc.

Gear wise I think it's logical to assume that they will follow the same trend as BC. Lamelar was crappy prot pvp gear, actually was better for shockadins but it was first made with prot in mind. Seeing the damage values people are putting out with ShoR I don't think it's a streach to see prot pvp gear that simply switches out dodge/parry/def for crit and resillance.

Talent wise we might need a few things like skills but we have some decent stuff accessable already. On the tanking side of things, the whole reason we screamed about fixing the bloat in prot was so we would have more choices where to spend talents.

If paladin prot for LK becomes the same cookie cutter build like we have on live currently then that is massive failure. There has to be some flexability for personal choice.