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Maintankadin

Make Us "Block-Tank" - Ardent Defender Idea

Rofladin
Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:22 pm
IMO Ardent Defender is fine as-is, and is a class-defining ability. Passive oh-shit button FTW. All it really needs is a graphical buff. I want to KNOW when it kicks in.

There are better opportunities to improve our mitigation. There's still the 4% gap from Righteous Fury, which has honestly become less of a problem. We're short a talent in our prot tree, which hopefully will be a mitigation talent, preferably active (we already have passive and reactive abilities out the wazoo).

I would like to see a buff to Redoubt, personally. Block chance really doesn't do a whole lot for our mitigation. At tier levels we'll be close enough to unhittable that a couple unblocked swings here and there won't be a huge deal. If we're going to be block tanks, as our tier itemization points to, it makes sense to give us some sort of block value boost.

Maybe something like...

Amarant_Pally
Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:00 am
P.S.

The fact that we have to use an add-on to visually represent how useful AD really is (and is not) says a lot, in my opinion, as well.
crabcrouton
Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:34 am
We use an add-on to represent how useful threat is too, y'know.

AD could use some work but your idea isn't the answer. For one thing, they [Bliz] are promising slow hitting and magic bosses in wotlk, which would completely negate the block idea. Compare that to current AD's sporadic trigger, current is still better.
2ndNin
Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:46 am
Its prevented 2.0% damage for me in the last while (36million damage taken). Its a life saver, and a minor mitigation...

Better would be if we had a talent that smoothed out damage to work with it:

"Divine Smoothing, you like it smooth: If you would take more than 20% of your health in a single hit, you instead take 50% of the damage, and 50% over 10s (10% per tick)"

Suddenly Ardent defender gets better, because we see more smaller hits (also improves block if thats applied).
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Jensaarai
Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:54 am
I thought of this in another thread, but,


Ardent Defender, I believe, is the reason Blizzard does not put us at an even 10% base damage reduction like Warriors. When everyone compares RF to Defensive Stance, they never mention Ardent Defender. Now, I do see this talent save my ass a lot. But, with all the complaining about it, and everyone thinking "oh because people see RF 6% DS 10% Paladins won't tank", I start to think they should just do away with this talent and make RF 10% :/


How would you guys feel if Ardent Defender was removed and RF buffed to 10%? Would you feel cheated? I for one think that 4% more reduction would reduce more damage taken overall, but Ardent Defender is more likely to save your ass in a pinch, and more useful in AoE tanking. But other classes can AoE tank now so we don't care about that anymore.

What do you think?
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Snake-Aes
Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 am
Balancing us around being block tanks is pretty much not worth it. It'd requrie a major redesign of the WHOLE GAME, because

We'd block a fuckton to make up for the avoidance loss: No aoe encounter can be balanced around us because it'll either be trivial for us(no damage income) or hard to us and impossible to the others(insane damage income).
Also, itemization would be completely fucked. Items designed for us would fail for others, or would be globally good for warriors and paladins, making them the same that we are.
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Afraithe
Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:36 am
It is not as clear as a Shieldwalling prot warrior yelling "SHIEEEEELD WAAAAL I ROOOX" and saving the raid, but it has saved the raid in just as many times as Shield wall, perhaps even more.

I know for a fact it has saved wipes on the following bosses in Sunwell.

Kalecgos
Brutallus (enough armor mitigation and HP for it to not get totaly leapfrogged)
Felmyst (happens that u turn your back to mobs to catch more skeletons, can go down fast then)
Twins (omg yes, stunned healers, dualwielding bitch)
Muru (maaasive amount of damage when 3 grps of smallies + standing in big sentinel aoe damage)
KJ (damn mages)

Yes, that is all the bosses in Sunwell.

And ok, even though our Stamina scales in WOTLK, as does boss damage, however, it will increase even more for AOE mob situations where it already is very very good.
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