Honest Question about Nightmare Tear

Why do so many people think this is horribad for a red or yellow socket?

The 5 stam you "give up" is REALLY going to save your life? I'm glad my guild doesn't have so much riding on so little, FFS.

Isetnefret wrote:Why do so many people think this is horribad for a red or yellow socket?

The 5 stam you "give up" is REALLY going to save your life? I'm glad my guild doesn't have so much riding on so little, FFS.

5 stam isn't going to save your life very often, but it's a question of what you gain vs. what you lose. As for so much riding on so little, every little bit adds up to big gains eventually. Why did you with epic gems in the first place? "All" you gain is six stam per socket, almost exactly the same amount you're calling inconsequential.... but you know they add up.

The likely comparable for a red or yellow socket if you're considering a Nightmare Tear are the Shifting Dreadstone (10 Agi/15 stam) and the Enduring Eye of Zul (10 Defense /15 stam). We're assuming the socket bonus is worth taking, which, looking at a lot of this tier of gear, isn't always a safe assumption.

With the Dreadstone, you're gaining 5 stam at the cost of 10 strength and 10 int. The int is functionally useless, so it's a question of minor threat vs. minor survivability. Are you threat tight? Most of us would never gem for straight strength if presented it except for a specific threat oriented set... but that's basically what you're doing vs a dreadstone.

With the Eye, you're gaining 10 defense and 5 stam at the cost of 10 agi and 10 strength. This is an overall avoidance boost and a tiny effective health boost. Again, the nightmare tear only buffs your threat at the cost of survivability.

TL;DR: Nearly every tank gems for survival first, threat second, except if they're consistently threatcapping their raid. The nightmare tear is a threat gem, nothing more.

6 stam per socket, multiplied by how many sockets?

The nightmare tear is limited to a single socket, but counts as all colors, to help enable meta gems. It's not the same comparison as I'm not putting the tear in 5 different sockets...

Okay, let's turn it around a bit. Why do *you* want a Nightmare Tear in your gear? Why would you choose it over another gem?

I made a mistake before, switching around gear pieces, and ended up with a meta that wasn't active, without realizing it.

Using one pretty much guarantee's that will be impossible.

Aside from the fact that I don't buy into the gemming pure stamina, as well.

So when you throw a Nightmare Tear in a prismatic socket, you're pretty much guaranteed to keep your meta active at all times.

Do you not find you regularly have Enduring Eye of Zul/Forest Emeralds or Shifting Dreadstone/Twilight Opal in your gear? I usually have two of both of those in my gear at all times.

For me, I would think using the Nightmare Tear is great in a pinch moment. But I find I regem all of my gear every time I get a new piece so that I can make everything mesh with the new item. If you're not a subscriber to that, then I don't see an issue with using a Nightmare Tear. Plenty of people get +10 stats enchanted on their chest if they're way over the defensive minimum. I see this gem as being no different than that.

Isetnefret wrote:Aside from the fact that I don't buy into the gemming pure stamina, as well.

Well if that's the case, you should have loads of agility (or dodge)/stamina and defense/stamina gems in your gear that would cover the meta requirements, no?

Usually, except the one time that I accidentally ended up with straight Regal Twilight Opals. I play with different gemming schemes all the time.

I tried pure stamina. The reason I don't do that anymore is our Warrior tank does that. He's got way more health than I can ever hope to, unless I just out-gear him on an iLevel basis, by a lot.

If we need a 45k health tank, it's all his. I try to go for more pure avoidance, as I don't see the point in doubling up tanking abilities.



My mind is not completely made up on the Tear yet, it just seemed like a good idea. I have the daily tokens saved up, just trying to decide whether I'd be better served with the Tear, or the Delicate Cardinal Ruby, since I have all the other tank oriented patterns.

I think I'm confused by your original question now. You seemed frustrated that others were sort of looking down on Nightmare Tears. And yet now it sounds like you're not sure you want it either. If you're worried about your meta, assuming you match sockets (and since you're not a straight stamina gemmer, you should be fine) you should end up always meeting your meta requirements.

I can't think of any scenario where I'd take a Nightmare tear over something else.

Assuming I want the socket bonus:

Red socket:
Comes down to +5 stam vs +10 str. I'd definitely take 5 stam over 10 str.

Yellow Socket:
+10 defense and +5 stam vs +10 agi and +10 str. The stam beats out the str easily, and the def and agi are a pretty equal, so again going to take green def/stam gem.

The whole "I don't want to accidentally lose a meta gem requirement" is silly to me. It's on the same level as accidentally losing crit immunity with a gear upgrade - you just don't do it.

If you honestly think 10 str is better than 5 stam or 10 agi is quite a bit better than 10 def then go for it.

Isetnefret wrote:If we need a 45k health tank, it's all his. I try to go for more pure avoidance, as I don't see the point in doubling up tanking abilities.

While I agree with this, he's not quite as suited to it as a paladin is. Prot warriors get a 6% bonus to stamina from talents - prot paladins get a 14% bonus. Further, we triple dip into it because it affects Touched by the Light, allowing stamina to be a pretty good threat stat as well (Admittedly, changing - but that's being changed because of PVP abuse, not pve stacking), AND the ability to expand the ardent defender range by increasing our total health pool. Tack that on to the roughly ten percent extra effective health the new OP ardent defender has been estimated to be, and a paladin is far more suited to straight stamina stacking than a warrior.

The warrior gets stam from his ranged slot along with threat and avoidance. We can only get threat or avoidance alone, so we have to make up the health somewhere.

Avoidance has its place... but paladins make fantastic stam stacking meat shields, especially until the TbtL change goes in.

Every single log we've ever run where I didn't stack stamina shows me taking FAR less damage per second, regardless of how hard the boss hits.

Far less than the warrior, druid, DK, or other paladin tanks we have.

Isetnefret wrote:The 5 stam you "give up" is REALLY going to save your life? I'm glad my guild doesn't have so much riding on so little, FFS.

I dunno, I upgraded all my blue (quality and color) gems to epic ones for what amounts to 6 stamina on each. These sorts of things add up. 5 Stamina vs 10 strength/int/spirit isn't exactly terrible for me to decide.

Also, if you are so interested in "stacking" avoidance, Shifting Dreadstone gives you the same amount and more stam, and a single one keeps the 32 stam 2% armor meta active unless you for whatever reason have no other blue gems.

Slightly off-topic.. but I would buy more into avoidance if it helped me survive plasma blasts, breaths, fusion punches, and the other stuff blizzard has added to encounters to make them almost pure stam stacking.

As much as I hate to say it, beyond meta requirements, there is no reason for current content with the high avoidance on gear for us to gem for anything other than stam with +30 stam or Hybrid gems +10/+15 as you see fit. The gear itself brings the balance that you need in avoidance.

As for the Nightmare Tear, it is junk in my opinion. It offers nothing for survivability that cannot be exceeded by another gem and is wasted itemisation for us.

deet wrote:I dunno, I upgraded all my blue (quality and color) gems to epic ones for what amounts to 6 stamina on each. These sorts of things add up. 5 Stamina vs 10 strength/int/spirit isn't exactly terrible for me to decide.

As I said before, all the little upgrades add up to something quite tangible.

Barathorn