Greater Inscription of the Gladiator for EH?

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44957

Greater Inscription of the Gladiator
Binds when picked up
Requires Level 70
Use: Permanently adds 30 Stamina and 15 resilience rating to a shoulder slot item.
Enchanting the item causes it to become soulbound.

I was browsing the Tanking forums on WoW and someone questioned why tanks are using this. I mean honestly this is a nice EH bump against the Hodir enchant. I think once I get my deconstructor shoulders and 8.5 I will put the 30 stam 15 resil on 8.5 and the Hodir enchant on the Deconstructor for my AV set.

For tanking 25man hardmode content, this is probably the enchant to use.

For everything else, I'd use the Hodir enchant.

i use it and love it plus it will allow you to drop your defense bellow 540, not that i have (i have no def enchants or gems atm), but it could.

Jasari wrote:For tanking 25man hardmode content, this is probably the enchant to use.

For everything else, I'd use the Hodir enchant.

I agree with Jasari.

I dont get it.
I usually do stack stamina in every opportunity i can get.
However this enchant seems to me like a downgrade.
Would 30sta really be that OP when doing hardmode content?
Its trading 30sta for 20dodge and 15def. If you compare with gems the hodir ench clearly wins since its almost one gem more.
You can go below 540def, but i see no reason why since def is still not wasted past 540.
Prolly the only fight i see this as an enchant worthwhile would be mimiron hardmode, since surviving plasma blast is really the only thing to worry about as a tank, and the occational mine.
If this is the case, then those going for this enchant should also go for 24sta gems EVERYWHERE, theres maybe 2 or 3 items that will allow you do use 8agi/12sta gems in that case and giving a socketbonus of 12sta, otherwise it wouldnt be worth it with this reasoning.
Correct me if im wrong, but i dont see this enchant beating the hodir one in many ways.

You're getting 30 stamina and 22 defense rating equivalents towards becoming immune to critical attacks. If you wear a lot of hard mode items, which tend to be deficient in defense, then most of the resilience is not wasted. Moreover, if you're making "gem" comparisons then it's not simply 30 stamina. The enchant is not subjected to diminishing returns like dodge or the avoidance from defense, and it receives a 14% bonus modifier from talents and another 10% modifier from Kings.

Defenitley stamina enchant, like was mentioned you can drop below 540 to 536 while using this enchant if im not mistaken. Honestly i think the hodir enchant is too weak, its hardly and improvement from tbc enchants.

Nadir wrote:Moreover, if you're making "gem" comparisons then it's not simply 30 stamina. The enchant is not subjected to diminishing returns like dodge or the avoidance from defense, and it is receives to a 14% bonus modifier from talents and another 10% modifier from Kings.

You do take it as 30 sta as sta gems get exactly the same treatment.


Anyway I used a paladin with 689 defense, 600 dodge rating, 200 parry, 155 agi giving avoidance of 55.90, which I feel is quite representative of an Ulduar tank atm. Increasing defense by 100 gave an increase in avoidance of 1.512, increasing dodge by 100 gave 1.62. Making dodge worth 1.0714 for every 1 defense for avoidance for this particular paladin.

Gems - 1.5 (24/16)
Chest - 0.99 (21.84/22)
Shield - 0.9 (18/20)
Shoulder - 0.82 (30/36.429)

(20*1.0714)+15=36.429

Of course your paladin will be different so the shoulder value is just a general one, although never going to be better value than the shield.

So go for the shoulder enchant if you want to stack sta, but only after you have hp on chest and sta on shield.

Darus wrote:Defenitley stamina enchant, like was mentioned you can drop below 540 to 536 while using this enchant if im not mistaken. Honestly i think the hodir enchant is too weak, its hardly and improvement from tbc enchants.

You´re not mistaken. At 536 defense you need an additional 0,16% crit-chance reduction. 15 resilience gives 0,18%, so it´s all good.

Regarding Gladiator vs Hodir, for me (so don´t take this as a general guide-line) the choice was easy. I´m pretty much limited to one gear-set so far in Ulduar, and I´m stacking EH in it. I´m not gemming for avoidance, so why would I enchant for it?

I´m also walking a thin line on the defense minimum.
- Gladiator gets me closer to it, so that´s a given.
- 22 def is superior to 275 health on chest (if I had to regem to compensate), so that´s another given.
- Definitely the same with defense vs stamina on shield.

Perhaps not relevant here, but if you have even a single defense-gem in your gear, you´re better off with the defense-enchants on chest/shield to reach the minimum. For those of us treading the thin line, getting either of those two health-enchants is risky business, since chances are the next upgrade you get has less defense anyway.

(Yes, Signet of Winter is very painful to squeeze into a gear-set)

amh wrote:Perhaps not relevant here, but if you have even a single defense-gem in your gear, you´re better off with the defense-enchants on chest/shield to reach the minimum. For those of us treading the thin line, getting either of those two health-enchants is risky business, since chances are the next upgrade you get has less defense anyway.

(Yes, Signet of Winter is very painful to squeeze into a gear-set)

A question I have arising from this, if you already run def enchants on shield, chest and cloak and are using the SoH shoulder enchant and at least 1 +8 def/+12 stam gem and you can afford to lose one of them, which one should it be for a tank just starting Ulduar 10?

I would normally think cloak for armor or look at the gem choices, but this has made me think that perhaps my earlier assessment on this shoulder enchant was not thought out well enough. If dropping defense to 536 is an option with a base 30 extra stamina on shoulders while maintaining good avoidance then it becomes an option and perhaps not just for hard modes?

So would you swap out SoH and put in Gladiators for a tank just starting Ulduar 10?

Barathorn

Barathorn wrote:A question I have arising from this, if you already run def enchants on shield, chest and cloak and are using the SoH shoulder enchant and at least 1 +8 def/+12 stam gem and you can afford to lose one of them, which one should it be for a tank just starting Ulduar 10?

The armor-enchant on cloak is amazing; I have wet dreams about it. As soon as I´m floating a little closer to 540 I´ll trade out 16def right away. I´ll leave it to the pros to calculate the EH-difference between 225 armor and whatever amount of stamina you would gain by regemming. Regarding chest/shield, I would rather swap the gem in this case. Subbing in and out enchants is a painful and expensive process, whereas swapping a gem takes 3 minutes and 10-20g. Hardly a min-maxing attitude, but ehm.. yeah :)

Barathorn wrote:I would normally think cloak for armor or look at the gem choices, but this has made me think that perhaps my earlier assessment on this shoulder enchant was not thought out well enough. If dropping defense to 536 is an option with a base 30 extra stamina on shoulders while maintaining good avoidance then it becomes an option and perhaps not just for hard modes?

So would you swap out SoH and put in Gladiators for a tank just starting Ulduar 10?

Yes. EH is very powerful in Ulduar (Ardent Defender is awesome in 10man).

Barathorn wrote:A question I have arising from this, if you already run def enchants on shield, chest and cloak and are using the SoH shoulder enchant and at least 1 +8 def/+12 stam gem and you can afford to lose one of them, which one should it be for a tank just starting Ulduar 10?

Personally, if you're so close you can only afford to lose one +def enchant/gem, then I wouldn't swap any of them out just yet. A lot of the Ulduar gear has lower Defense than T7 drops, and there's a few key parts with none whatsoever (Auri's legs, Signet of Winter, Stoneguard). I've swapped my def/sta gems for sta gems and back again 2-3 times now based on how various upgrades interacted with my current gear.

amh wrote:Yes. EH is very powerful in Ulduar (Ardent Defender is awesome in 10man).

EH is powerful, but if you've got every T7 10-man upgrade you should be comfortable enough to start Ulduar without any silly stacking. Any situation I've died as a tank in there has either been to my own stupidity (I stood in the fire, I mistimed a cooldown) or something happening ( a healer dying, an interrupt or taunt missing, a slow cleanse on a runed Fusion Punch).

I'd personally stick with the Hodir enchant unless your EH really sucks. Then again, I'm kinda biased against having any Resilience on my tanking gear!

I'm considering this enchant but I really really like avoidance and the hodir enchant. I try to stack stamina as best I can while still maintaining a fair or good amount of avoidance. The first place I could do this is on my trinkets: I could swap Furnace Stone for Essence of Gossamer and then perhaps in other places I could drop a defense enchant or something and get this enchant (though I really do love the hodir one). I don't like the resil at all, no, but I could get my hands on another Shoulderplates of the Deconstructor and throw this enchant on there and swap them out depending on the fight.

Lythac wrote:So go for the shoulder enchant if you want to stack sta, but only after you have hp on chest and sta on shield.

In terms of stamina stacking, 18 to shield should be your last priority. You get more stamina/health per loss of defense rating for the shoulder enchant and chest enchant.