What is the first item you are getting for EoTs?

shoulders are the biggest upgrade for me, still rocking the 10m t7 shoulders.

What are the stats on the LJ pants, I can't seem to find them. Unless they have armor, block value, or hit I really don't see myself passing on the t9 pants. I find the shoulders somewhat underwhelming while the t9 pants lack avoidance (that I am inundated with from almost all other pieces) but offer a seemingly rare chance at block value and hit rating. I would much rather take the well itemized badge shoulders along with the t9 pants over the expertise from the t9 shoulders.

Essentially, because there is so much dodge elsewhere and no hit to be found I am fine taking the trade off of dodge for parry on the shoulders in order to get the block and hit on the pants.

Legguards of Feverish Dedication vs. T9 ilvl 258 legs
Why is expertise unappealing to you? It provides ~75% of the threat of hit prior to the dodge soft cap. The ilvl 258 Jaraxxus legs also have a significant EH lead over the ilvl 258 T9 legs due to the third gem slot.


As for the shoulders - yeah, the token ones are superior at ilvl 245. However if you plan on doing hard modes, you're certainly not going to use ilvl 245 armor when you have an ilvl 258 option available.

Nadir wrote:I went for the Retribution libram first because I tend to play Retribution fairly frequently. I'll go for the Protection libram next.

This ^^. That libram is made of über and i hate pvp'ing for an even better one.

Including both the pants and shoulders in your best in slot set along with the cape you end up with 166 expertise and a total of 38 hit from the wrists. I like the t9 pants as they are viable 258s that offer two stats (hit and shield block value) that are virtually non existent on toc gear. It certainly does seem that we are going to be pigeonholed into using the tier shoulders until/unless a 258 alternative has yet to be found. Regardless I think I will take the t9 pants over the jaraxxus legs and wear 5/5 t9.

The only thing that makes me somewhat hesitant is that with the excessive amount of dodge/parry blizzard keeps throwing at us (instead of improving the way avoidance/gear scales) I guess we are working towards pushing block off the table, thus making shield block value irrelevant.

bads wrote:The only thing that makes me somewhat hesitant is that with the excessive amount of dodge/parry blizzard keeps throwing at us (instead of improving the way avoidance/gear scales) I guess we are working towards pushing block off the table, thus making shield block value irrelevant.

It will not be possible to push block off the table and never be hit at all... This is exactly what DR is meant for.

Using Rawr I can only get to 65% avoidance using all currently known gear. Which means that 35% of all physical attacks will still be blocked.

Is it just me, or are EoTs going to flow like water once the Grand Crusader opens up? I'm kind of hoping the later bosses of ToC are more difficult, but so far my guild had zero trouble with either of the first two in 25s or 10s, and we didn't even get any Ulduar 25 hards down besides Flame 4. But if each boss continues to drop 3 emblems of triumph, you're looking at 30 emblems a week from a full clear of Normal 10 and 25, then potentially another half dozen or more from cracking at hard modes... and this is assuming you never do the heroic daily, which I suspect most serious raiders are taking the time to do as much as possible now.

I guess they NEEDED to be plentiful since they're required for low and midlevel tier, but jeez. Seems a little excessive, don't you think? I'm not even worried about what to save my badges for - the patch has been out for two weeks and I'm about to buy my 2nd badge piece already.

bads wrote:Including both the pants and shoulders in your best in slot set along with the cape you end up with 166 expertise and a total of 38 hit from the wrists. I like the t9 pants as they are viable 258s that offer two stats (hit and shield block value) that are virtually non existent on toc gear. It certainly does seem that we are going to be pigeonholed into using the tier shoulders until/unless a 258 alternative has yet to be found. Regardless I think I will take the t9 pants over the jaraxxus legs and wear 5/5 t9.

The only thing that makes me somewhat hesitant is that with the excessive amount of dodge/parry blizzard keeps throwing at us (instead of improving the way avoidance/gear scales) I guess we are working towards pushing block off the table, thus making shield block value irrelevant.

I think a better argument for the Jaraxxus pants is that 258 tokens are going to be in short supply, and if you do get them, which pieces do you HAVE to get because there are no offset alternatives? I would argue the chest, helm, gloves, and maybe even 258 shoulders would be mandatory in a BiS set. The pants you can substitute for the Jaraxxus ones, and you only have to compete with other tanks for them. That's the really convincing argument for me. Not whether T9-258 > Jaraxxus, because the difference is small, but whether you're really going to get the pants with your 258 token when you need to grab the gloves/head/chest for which there exist zero alternatives.

Edit: I also want to see what Koralon drops before I use the Trophy of Crusade I managed to snag. I will either horde badges until then or grab the ring/libram.

I'm shooting for the ring first! That things is pretty nice, I have horrible luck w/drops and that is a sure thing. I am still running Naxx25 for the sand worm band and seeing as all the other tanks in my guild and even those who off spec have lev's coil if lev's coil does drop its mine. But I don't hold my breat and just know that I'll get the badge ring first...lol
I really do like the shoulders and the libram are very nice too and on my list.

*as for my luck I've run Reg ToC 3 days straight 3 or 4 times in a row for Blackhearts trinket and guess what...no drops.

I already have the ret libram, which I am loving for threat, next I am getting the ring, then the prot libram. At that point hopefully my guild is working on hard modes and I can start working on the 258 tier gear.

Zothor wrote:Is it just me, or are EoTs going to flow like water once the Grand Crusader opens up? I'm kind of hoping the later bosses of ToC are more difficult, but so far my guild had zero trouble with either of the first two in 25s or 10s, and we didn't even get any Ulduar 25 hards down besides Flame 4. But if each boss continues to drop 3 emblems of triumph, you're looking at 30 emblems a week from a full clear of Normal 10 and 25, then potentially another half dozen or more from cracking at hard modes... and this is assuming you never do the heroic daily, which I suspect most serious raiders are taking the time to do as much as possible now.

I guess they NEEDED to be plentiful since they're required for low and midlevel tier, but jeez. Seems a little excessive, don't you think? I'm not even worried about what to save my badges for - the patch has been out for two weeks and I'm about to buy my 2nd badge piece already.

I don't think badges are the problem, but more the tokens.

5 bosses right? and 5 token in 25men, instead of the normal 2x per boss. that's really low. for 25people to get all 5 pieces with only 25men raid normal, it will take 25 weeks, which is 6 months..

Now, on the other hand, if 10men hard modes drops 5 too, it will become much MUCH more appealing for some 2nd Tier 9 before the real deal in 25men hard modes because 1/2 the raid is getting something each run.

I guess it's made against bootsing people in 1 run and get full T9 in 1h, but it seems really low to only get 5 token per run on 25men, when every other raid, TBC or LK gives 2x per boss.

Not to mention the dkp or EPGP or whatever system a guild uses issues. it's not like you're gonna get maybe 1 token for free because the others already have it or done need this part, since it's for all players, all parts. I don't like it personally.

The libram may end up being the single best upgrade I get this patch. It's a free 3% dodge right now and should become more valuable as i replace some dodge rating with parry.

Ragingsoul wrote:Not to mention the dkp or EPGP or whatever system a guild uses issues. it's not like you're gonna get maybe 1 token for free because the others already have it or done need this part, since it's for all players, all parts. I don't like it personally.

It beats having tokens rot because all your druids have 3 full sets of tier, your rogues and mages have already bought tier and PvP sets and have a 2nd set gemmed and enchanted differently, and your DKs all have off spec tokens they haven't even bothered turning in yet.

Meanwhile, conq token users are researching botnets so they can DDoS each other on raid night.

[quote="Ragingsoul"
I don't think badges are the problem, but more the tokens.

5 bosses right? and 5 token in 25men, instead of the normal 2x per boss. that's really low. for 25people to get all 5 pieces with only 25men raid normal, it will take 25 weeks, which is 6 months..

Now, on the other hand, if 10men hard modes drops 5 too, it will become much MUCH more appealing for some 2nd Tier 9 before the real deal in 25men hard modes because 1/2 the raid is getting something each run.

I guess it's made against bootsing people in 1 run and get full T9 in 1h, but it seems really low to only get 5 token per run on 25men, when every other raid, TBC or LK gives 2x per boss.

Not to mention the dkp or EPGP or whatever system a guild uses issues. it's not like you're gonna get maybe 1 token for free because the others already have it or done need this part, since it's for all players, all parts. I don't like it personally.[/quote]

I agree with you that right now the tokens seem constrained. I'm hoping, at the very least, that Anubarak drops 2 Trophies, or that the Trophies drop on hard mode AS WELL as the straight up 258 tokens.

However I think blizz may be making a conscious shift to make tier more important and more exclusive. Too many players, imo, are in love with tier. They see tier as the only way to gear, even at the devaluation of better stats. Blizz is making the ENTIRE 232 set easily available, but at a price - you're giving up 13 points of ilvl vs the other badge loot or the 25 man drops. I hope most serious raiders won't make that trade, and the cosmetically inclined can go ahead and do so.

The real question is going to be how hard these hard modes are. So far, ToC hasn't even approached Ulduar's level of difficult, so if the hard modes aren't Ulduar hard, we're likely to see people passing on the 245 Trophies just so they can spend their DKP on the 258 tokens.

When I said the emblems are going to flow like water, my point was more than I expect to have a COMPLETE set of the 245 offset loot in relatively short order if I don't end up with a Trophy (which I won't... they're bidding for insane numbers in my guild and I don't think I can afford that luxury as a tank).

Since the only benefit of tier gear is the set bonuses, and for us tanks the bonuses on T9 are questionable at best.

For DPS and healers the set bonuses are imba, they can represent a huge damage increase or mana efficiency benefit.

For tanks, unless the set bonus is as OP as the 4T8 warrior/DK its near worthless. A bit more threat and shorter CD on taunt and shieldwall? Unless there is a fight mechanic which NEEDs a 1.5min shield wall, its not really worth having.

Also, since tank loot drops in instances with quite a high rate, its ludicrous for tanks to take tier gear and shard offset tank items when the tank could just gear offset and the DPS (and to a lesser extent healers) can fill in gear gaps with tier while also getting the imba bonuses.

Healers all have their own armour type (cloth/leather/mail/plate healing is only for one spec) so they shouldn't need too much tier, but DPS share a lot of loot and so tier being malleable in this way is very valuable to fill in gear gaps in your raid.