Ret paladins - ehh?

While not related directly to tanking....

Where the hell is the stigma against ret paladins? And where did it come from in the first place? And where are the ret paladins worth a damn on my server?!? I've been wanting one for sanctity+buffs+judgement, now I want one worth a damn for their DPS .

Specced ret tonight, topped the meters across the board, and found I could push ~1.1k DPS - in blues+Kara epics+a piece or two of random tanking gear because I didn't have a ret item for the slot.

Overall meters: http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=overallpb4.jpg

My personal best, Curator: http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=curatoruw0.jpg

Note that the DPS in the raid (mostly) out gear me by a large margin.
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I like ret paladins myself, but they do take up a spot in the raid, usually a rogue or maybe dps warrior. You have quite a lot to live up to as a retribution paladin.

Regarding you screenshot, Curator is a really bad measurement. Actually Karazhan as a whole can be a bad example, your "overall" screen shot is made after Maiden, all packs before that are AOE packs, something that benefits you more than anyone else (except mage, who really should be at the top).

Your rogue has 250 dps, crappy gear and l2p issues I would say, he is also not in the shaman group for WF. The hunter and warlock should also have a lot more.

Sorry but, its not you who have good dps, its them who have really bad dps. Your DPS will not scale as quickly or as well as the other DPSers with the upgrades they get.

As a sidenote, the one who did most DPS wasn't you, It was the Shaman.
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I got a nice one in my guild now, but he can't paly all days

Really nice and dedicated guy.
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I love ret pallies, when running with one, we AoE mobs together, he uses half the rank concecrate that I am, with no RF. He is eating them up one at a time, and on bosses, he judges wisdom, I judge light. We get an extra set of pally buffs, (I take kings and wisdom), and we get two aura's great for lessening spellcasters effects while keeping my ret aura up.
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Ret palas are nice for the 3% more crit but the bad point is you will take the spot of a propper dps class and do a good 10% less dmg then them even in your best gear.. Also i found that 3% crit to not be that grate it just made some of our casters get agro quicker with massive crits so in turn they had to nuke less so there dps actually whent down.

I've always said this even when i was ret. Ret palas are for 5 mans and pvp not for raids. They where only nice in 40 man raids when 1 less dps and you keeping a judge up was nice.
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http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bloodfeather&n=Erlata

Nahh, ret paladins aren't that low. Of course, if you compare to rogues, everything will pale in comparison. As long as the paladin doesn't end up dead last of the DPS there, kick the other members from the raid, not the ret paladin.
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Well, you shouldn't out-DOPS BM hunters or rogues, but you're going to give the warriors a run for their money.

If you only have one melee-dps group, then I guess it's a problem. But if you have a mixed group, or MT-group together with a warrior, feral druid + protwarrior or prot paladin, you will get pretty nice buffs.
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Also, you mentioned 3 classes. What about enhancement shamans? ARe their really worth the spot? Elemental? Moonkin? Extra feral druids? Non-BM-hunters? Non-destro-locks? Shadow priests? Arms warriors? Fury warriors?

There isn't many fights where threat doesn't matter, and then, paladins deal less threat than fury warriors, and alot less than arms warriors.
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the most progressed ally guild on our server uses a Ret pally in every raid they go to. at this point i think they have up to ROS down IIRC. and ya know what? with equal gearing and skill to the other players, he regularly gets very near the top of meters. thats in addition to the other buffs he brings, which i might add, have been mathematically proven to be more effective overall than any other classes buffs. he doesnt beat their rogues and such, but being at least top 10 out of at least 14 dpsers aint bad either.

i, personally, have always prefered Ret to prot even. i just stay prot because it benefits my guild as a whole much better than me as ret would. my personal best dps so far (as i said in another thread) was 4th on Gruul. and that was in all KZ gear except Loot Reaver Greaves.

edit: also, if you want to get into a lot of the theorycrafting crap that i suck at (like math) go to http://cromfel.battlefield.fi/modules.php?name=Forums. lots of good info there too.
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The guild im in and another guild are the top progressed guilds on our server, we both took down Illidan within 24 hours of eachother. The other guild has a retribution paladin raiding quite a lot, but its really on the edge. His best was doing 1400 dps on Teron Gorefiend, ending up 2nd on DPS.

I did some retribution in Black temple myself, I have quite nice gear actually, ended up something like 1300 dps on Teron Gorefiend, still low on our guilds DPS lists though. But these are gimmick fights, I was in the most optimal group setup possible for me, WF, Heroism etc.

Looking at the WWS logs, I didn't actually boost our DPS any, so we actually didn't gain anything from having me instead of a Rogue in the raid at that point (didn't loose anything either though).

Might be harder to motivate on other fights, where you might need the kick/interrupt that a Rogue can do.

I'm excited to see what kind of DPS buff this 2.3.2 change will mean, once that is out, ill go another round as Retri in BT to try it out. I ONLY have Warrior gear, so the change should suit me fine.
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Ret brings more dps then personal dps.

#1 - 3% crit. A Prot pally can spec for this as well, as you guys know, but not without cost to other talents they might need. I'm sorry, but this will provide a dps increase for mages too. If they are pulling aggro with another 3% crit then you need to examine your tanking and aggro dynamics.

#2 - Sanctity aura means 10% more threat for a Prot paladin. More threat for the tank means more raid dps.

#3 - Refreshing judgements. Just refreshing JoWisdom alone can be huge for a raid. Sure a Prot or Holy can judge a mob, and the prot will do a great job keeping his up as long as he isnt offtanking something, but the Holy has to constantly run in and out to keep rejudging, or meleeing, and will lose effective healing. WE are not druids, Holy Shock does not count as healing on the run.

I guarantee you if you add this all up it will be more than 10% of a single rogues dps, so when all is said and done, a Ret pally will bring more raid dps then a single rogue, but a 2nd Ret pally would be stupid.

Oh and here is a WWS of Regulate, a retadin doing 1920 dps on Anetheron

http://wowwebstats.com/sx1f13dxp1mdm?s=72-293
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"Beat it to fit, paint it to match"

We just recruited a Ret Paladin last night.
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Visit my crappy blog... Nerf This...

I've often joked with my raid leader (a prot warrior) about me going ret and letting the fury warrior we have OT. He just keeps saying that paladin can't dps. I'm eager to go ret when the changes come out so I can see if I can prove him wrong. Maybe I'll get priority on Gorehowl over the fury warrior if do...
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