3.2.2 Patch notes

I'm more worried for TbtL scaling in future than for the nerf to RF (sooner or later a threat nerf was coming anyway).
The cd reduction...reduction for HoJ is a bit silly from a pve pov,since HoJ is already not a great interrupt,but once more,pvp nerf hit us


And about SoC......Well....They keep taking things away from a seal just to be forced to put 'em back into another one (AoE just went from SoM to SoR to SoC....)
The sad part is that SoC will still be pretty much useless for pvp,and lower damage compared to SoV for single target pve

The fundamental problem with PvP prot for paladins is the following:

What can PvP prot do? Well its good at not dying....

Lets give it some utility, so it can really really annoy people with stuns / silences etc while not dying and doing small DPS.

The trouble is that, holy paladins spam healing themselves are ALSO good at not dying. And the holy tree has so little useful talents in it for PvP that they can spec mostly prot quite happily, gain all our utility, while also not dying and, crucially, making other people on their team not die also.

Unlike other healers trees which are full of talents to increase spellpower coefficients, lower mana costs, decrease damage taken when critted etc the holy tree has very little in that regard. With the illumination nerf SoW gives back far more mana than illumination does which makes speccing for crit and illumination rather redundant. Holy shock is a good talent, but that's about it.

I think there is no way to give prot paladins utility in arena, without also giving it to healing geared paladins. Unless it scales off BV. But then blizzard decided that prot paladins/warriors gearing for BV and then going around doing burst damage in PvP wasn't intended, so that was removed with the DR nonsense. What exactly DO they want prot PvP to do? We aren't allowed to heal, we aren't allowed to do large shield slams. We are allowed to be good at not dying. While that's good for a lot of battlegrounds, its useless of the arena. WTB arenas with small-scale BG objectives. Mimi-capture the flag, hold a command point etc style games.

Prot nerfed thanks to Arenalol? Shocking and unexpected! Thank Jebus we have quite a few interrupts on low CD so this won't affect us.

Oh and double threat nerf (RF and TbtL) is pretty sweet!

This is where "i told you so" comes in

PS I just find it AMAZING they nerfed JotJ that every prot paladin has and uses in PvE while they left Imp HoJ which is a low-tier talent designed for PvP. PILLARLOSLOL IS SRS BZNZ?!

Katamai wrote:
PS I just find it AMAZING they nerfed JotJ that every prot paladin has and uses in PvE while they left Imp HoJ which is a low-tier talent designed for PvP. PILLARLOSLOL IS SRS BZNZ?!

Cant nerf imp HoJ because that's the only cd reduction ret has

The problem was only with prot/holy taking both,so there was only a way to nerf it...Sadly -.-

Rogues
Fan of Knives: The damage done by this ability has been reduced by 30%.

Looks like my rogue is back to twiddling his thumbs on trash >.>

so pvp prot will stop using holy gear and will start using ret gear - that might be fun.

Fenris wrote:Cant nerf imp HoJ because that's the only cd reduction ret has

The problem was only with prot/holy taking both,so there was only a way to nerf it...Sadly -.-

Prot is rarely taking Imp HoJ and they know (or should know) it which just shows they don't give a damn about what they do to prot as long as it fixes their precious arenalol balance.

Next step - remove silencing effect from AS and reduce its dmg since proly build tards will be using ret gear and AS will hit even harder.

EDIT: If they wanted ret to have a 20s reduction they could have easily tacked 10 off cd on one of the deep ret talents and voila! Problem solved! But that would require more than 30s of their time to come up with when they can go and have a nice cash bath.

Katamai wrote:

Fenris wrote:Cant nerf imp HoJ because that's the only cd reduction ret has

The problem was only with prot/holy taking both,so there was only a way to nerf it...Sadly -.-

Prot is rarely taking Imp HoJ and they know (or should know it) which just shows they don't give a damn about what they do to prot as long as it fixes their precious arenalol balance.

Next step - remove silencing effect from AS

I for one love imp HoJ!

well if you ask me .. they managed to actually give some thought into this changes.

for one:

And loosing 10s on stun is rather irritating. Couldn't they have taken it from imp.hammer of justice rather than JotJ?

10s out of Imp. hammer of justice would be like a nail in coffin for Ret or Holy(more like 10 or so nails). i mean really. the screams of rage would have never stopped and this time .. with a good reason. it was obvious that any change they'd do to the prot specced healers would be deep prot talents.

also the TBTL change has a nice touch. what do both PVP gear and PVE prot gear have globs in common? Stamina. what does PVE prot gear ALWAYS have in globs and PVP gear healing gear doesn't? Strength.
without the added Spell power from the TBTL prot heals will simply pale, even considering the 30% greater crits. it's a nice twist that doesn't royaly fuck PVE Protection and neither PVP Protection (not healing wise - damage wise). it's not exactly problem free since it will shift alot of power on MORE STR .. but hey.

and last but not least. the Threat nerf. yeah it's an OBVIOUS double nerf, i'm not even going to dispute that. but really now, really really .. none of you expected this? i mean the Prot pallys absolutely rule in threat any other tank and this was even before the SOV change.

Enkal wrote:I for one love imp HoJ, might even drop it for something else now.

Personally, i'd rather take a non-situational talent than Imp HoJ and always have been. The point is, Imp HoJ and JotJ were giving us a SOMEWHAT useful interrupt/stun (on GCD which sucked ass) on a cd that made it bearable. This new situation is just a joke and it all came down to ARENALOL balance once again affecting PvE.

@ alayire - read what i wrote about HoJ cd for ret. None of the changes they did was needed they way they did it nor it's the best way to solve the issue.
Removing crit and +healing from TbtL and making Imp HoJ 5/10 (with an equivalent tacked in ret tree) would have been a good solution. What they did is retarded and lazy.

Katamai wrote:

Enkal wrote:I for one love imp HoJ, might even drop it for something else now.

Personally, i'd rather take a non-situational talent than Imp HoJ and always have been. The point is, Imp HoJ and JotJ were giving us a SOMEWHAT useful interrupt/stun (on GCD which sucked ass) on a cd that made it bearable. This new situation is just a joke and it all came down to ARENALOL balance once again affecting PvE.

Yea, I reread it. I dont really understand why they nerf a deep prot talent like that. :/

WTB 4 talent trees: Protection, Retribution, Holy and Pvp (Vengeance).

It's a shame I like 20 second HOJ, it made prot pvp a little more viable. Now in PVP am just a meatstick without an interrupt.

TBtl is a straight Nerf.... & from this I mean I will struggle to justify putting sanct on myself with the double DIP bounus on strength from BOK... this is a badly thought out change really badly thought out....morons.

RF change is kinda MEh with the other nerfs included, on it's own it would have been fine.


I'd like to know what procs SOC though, it could possibly make it's way into a prot build depends on what triggers it.

If it comes from Hotr/Shor/Autoattack it really does have some interesting ramifications

They could just lower HoJ to 40s base, and remove I.HoJ, and keep the new 10 CD reduction from JotJ.

I would be happy with that!

Ret gets its 40s HoJ, and can spec into holy if it wants now
Holy gets its 40s HoJ, and can spec ret if it wants.
Prot has 30s HoJ, and is happy as it didn't have to waste 2 points!

Candiru wrote:They could just lower HoJ to 40s base, and remove I.HoJ, and keep the new 10 CD reduction from JotJ.

I would be happy with that!

Ret gets its 40s HoJ, and can spec into holy if it wants now
Holy gets its 40s HoJ, and can spec ret if it wants.
Prot has 30s HoJ, and is happy as it didn't have to waste 2 points!

Too much effort!

Plus being real, they'd have to think of a new talent instead of Imp HoJ.