Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Ok, so I'm bored and have mostly decided I don't like Obama or Romney...

What do people think about Gov. Gary Johnson (the Libertarian candidate)?

I just started reading up on him, since I'd only heard of him last night (watching The Daily Show) but the first article on his website has him supporting the legalization of marijuana...

Ok, so I've been reading up on his stances for each issue, and I like which side he's on for about 90% of them... the question is, does he have plans in place to get them enacted...

Oh, the website I've been reading, in case anyone wants to see where I'm getting the info from:

http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/issues

Unless we drastically overhaul the election process and make it more than a 2 party race (all parties are technically welcome to run, but let's be serious here), casting a vote for anything but a republican or democrat is essentially "wasting" it. And no, I'm not getting into what I think would be a good overhaul of the system here.

On years where I don't like either the democrat or republican, I write in votes for something silly. Last time it was Quetzalcoatl, and I think this year I'll be writing in a vote for Mr. Hankey the Christmas Poo.

Election 2012

[Spoiler] Vladimir Putin wins. [/Spoiler]

I like obama, I think he is a great face for America for the rest of the world.
Also, I've yet to see a candidate that doesnt look and sound batshit crazy.

Passionario wrote:

Election 2012

[Spoiler] Vladimir Putin wins. [/Spoiler]

[Belgian Spoiler] NVA makes a breaktrough, PS remains stable. [/Spoiler]

On a more serious note, the U.S. SERIOUSLY needs a system overhaul, nothing good can come out of a system where it's either A or B, else FU.

Seen from the outside, Obama looks like a very good PotUS, but one part of one's duties does not a President make, and I'm not sure how he's handling your national hot-topics, as they don't get a lot of press outside the U.S oustide of the gay marriage thingie, but that's more because gay marriage is still a buzzword.

Skye1013 wrote:Ok, so I'm bored and have mostly decided I don't like Obama or Romney...

What do people think about Gov. Gary Johnson (the Libertarian candidate)?

Whenever someone talks about this kind of stuff, all I can think of is that episode of the Simpsons where the two aliens take over and run for president against each other.

"We can still vote for a third party!"

"Go ahead. Throw your vote away."

I guess the only real route to change is third party candidates making waves on the state and district levels and building from that, rather than going directly for change in the white house. But the system, and the fact that the two current parties are so big and so visible that it makes it look like there's no point trying to go against them, make it unlikely to happen on a large enough scale.

The Netherlands seems to be on the other end of the scale: there are so many parties now it takes 3-5 of them to even get a majority in parlement.
fun times to be had...
e.g every decision gets reversed faster than it is made.

But the US elections strike me to be a choice for the lesser of 2 evils. (nevertheless, a choice for the lesser of 10+ evils isn't a huge improvement)

I think too big of a deal is made about throwaway votes when someone votes for a third party. Unless you live in a swing state, your state's outcome is nearly a foregone conclusion so even a vote for Obama or Romney is still really a throwaway vote there.

Skye1013, I don't know too much about him really, but if he aligns with your views better than the others, then go for it.

Well, One might wonder what might have happened if, in the 2000 election, the 130,000 votes that went to third parties in Florida had gone to either Bush or Gore. 3000 people voted for "other," while the election was decided by 537 votes.

Voting systems. Bork bork bork. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo

Invisusira wrote:

Skye1013 wrote:Ok, so I'm bored and have mostly decided I don't like Obama or Romney...

What do people think about Gov. Gary Johnson (the Libertarian candidate)?

Whenever someone talks about this kind of stuff, all I can think of is that episode of the Simpsons where the two aliens take over and run for president against each other.

"We can still vote for a third party!"

"Go ahead. Throw your vote away."

It may be a throw away vote, but I'm fairly assured that Texas is a long ways away from ever being a "blue" state, so my vote won't mean much anyway. Voting for a third party at least lets me say "I voted, but didn't choose the current president, so I have a right to complain." Even if being in the military limits some of that right (though I don't know that'll be for too much longer anyhow.)

Fivelives wrote:Unless we drastically overhaul the election process and make it more than a 2 party race (all parties are technically welcome to run, but let's be serious here), casting a vote for anything but a republican or democrat is essentially "wasting" it.

The more people that "waste" their vote on someone else, the more likely it is that others will see the system is broken, or heck, might even take a chance the next election because the number is growing, and "this year just might be the year..."

For anyone that doesn't even take the time for a write in vote (even if it's a made up person/creature/place/whatever), I don't think they really have much room to complain about the system.

Skye1013 wrote:The more people that "waste" their vote on someone else, the more likely it is that others will see the system is broken, or heck, might even take a chance the next election because the number is growing, and "this year just might be the year..."

For anyone that doesn't even take the time for a write in vote (even if it's a made up person/creature/place/whatever), I don't think they really have much room to complain about the system.

If it helps, while I refuse to vote, I don't complain about it, I just have no faith that it even works.

Skye1013 wrote:The more people that "waste" their vote on someone else, the more likely it is that others will see the system is broken, or heck, might even take a chance the next election because the number is growing, and "this year just might be the year..."

For anyone that doesn't even take the time for a write in vote (even if it's a made up person/creature/place/whatever), I don't think they really have much room to complain about the system.

I think you're jousting at the wrong windmill, though. Even if there was a third-party president, he wouldn't have the ability to change anything without the cooperation of Congress, which he'd never have.

Change needs to start in Congress. That's where you should be voting for third-party candidates.

The problem is, congressional elections have far less visibility than presidential, and consequently even less voter turnout. So it would probably be even harder to gain a lot of momentum behind a third party/independent candidate.

Makes me wonder how we went from the original parties to the current ones... are they the same parties with different names?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_po ... al_parties

It's not like there has been a lack of other options.

Arnock wrote:The problem is, congressional elections have far less visibility than presidential, and consequently even less voter turnout. So it would probably be even harder to gain a lot of momentum behind a third party/independent candidate.

I agree.

But the point is that by making a statement with your Presidential vote, you are making a statement in the least effective place. Republican and Democrat Congressmen must just laugh at these "statements", knowing that their two parties' hold on the real power base isn't even being challenged. You might as well protest Taco Bell by picketing outside of a Burger King.

The tea party, while not really a traditional third party did have a noticeable impact, and they targeted a few republicans too. At the local level, the smaller turnouts really can help the third party candidates. So I'd agree that that seems like the best option to build a foundation.

The problem with third parties is that they simply don't get any media coverage, unless they're grossly, disgustingly rich. Or, they'll get bad media coverage, which in a presidential election is worse than no media at all.

Easy solution would be to hold debates asynchronously over the internet and let ALL of the candidates participate. Make the change now, or at least Soon™, so that by the time every household in the US has internet that can handle something like Youtube it would be the new status quo.

Everyone vote for Invisusira of the Nyan Cat party.

I think an American Idol style presidential election could work, lol. probably be better than the way it is currently......

Melathys wrote:I think an American Idol style presidential election could work, lol. probably be better than the way it is currently......

More votes are cast for American Idol over the course of a season than any presidential election in history. In 2008, there were 122.4 million votes cast for president. American Idol tallied up 97.5 million votes on the finale alone. And the '08 elections had the highest turnout in the history of the US.

How many are repeat voters though? Some people love giving Simon Cowell money and vote more than once per episode.

I don't know. I'm pretty sure they never release their raw vote data, but it's not really a subject that I follow religiously.