Poll: Am I a Mean dad, or responsible?

I don't think you were mean, but I'm not sure if stopping him from going to a movie unsupervised means much *shrug*. But you made a judgment call, and in this case, I don't see why that would be "wrong" or "mean".

That said, if he had been anything like me, you'd have found out about the movie AFTER I'd gone to it, so I don't think he's overly malicious (I wasn't - I just knew how to do something and get away with it and used that )

Would he respond to a carrot?

"Today, I cannot trust you to do A because of X, Y and Z. If you do L, M and N consistently for the next t days/weeks/months, then you may do B and we'll see how it goes."

Compromise. Tell him he can go, but only if he brings X amount of friends and they go as a group.

As a bonus, you'll seem like an awesome dad for giving permission. The sneaky thing is - who's he going to get to go with him? Most likely either nobody, or a couple of other girls who will most likely regulate the behavior without the need of a chaperone. People's behavior in theaters varies depending on how many people are there to observe and report, after all

Herd behavior - oftentimes, the only thing necessary to enforce a social norm is to have a group around to conform to.

mew wrote:A lot of teens need to fuck something up for themselves before they realize that they need to behave better. ... permanent fuckups that you can't really get away from.

Bolded for emphasis. Sure, we learn from fuckups. I made many. I still want to ensure my son (when he's this old ) doesn't have easy opportunities to make permanent fuckups. Sure, the world builds a better idiot, but if you can postpone their exposure to things like sex and alcohol and smoking until they actually know all about the nasty side effects ... they may be more likely to behave responsibly.

Yes, I'll be explaining all about how the nobility of europe had their brains turned to swiss cheese by syphilis. >:)

Fivelives wrote:Compromise. Tell him he can go, but only if he brings X amount of friends and they go as a group.

As a bonus, you'll seem like an awesome dad for giving permission. The sneaky thing is - who's he going to get to go with him? Most likely either nobody, or a couple of other girls who will most likely regulate the behavior without the need of a chaperone. People's behavior in theaters varies depending on how many people are there to observe and report, after all

It should, but teenagers are mind-bogglingly bad decision makers sometimes. When I was in grade 12 they took us and the grade 11s to see Jesus of Montreal (catholic high school) and a couple of the grade 11s stole several cases of drinks from the concession and passed them out. Sixty-odd peers and half a dozen teachers around, including the principal and the vice-principal. (They got caught. Police were called. It was a really good day to not be them.)

I have another nine months before I'm officially the parent of a teenager, but from my friends who are there already I've learned that sometimes, no matter what you've tried to teach them, teenagers just do things that don't make any fucking sense.

Heh, that's not exactly teenager-specific. I'd also bet that you being in a catholic school had something to do with that incident, too.

An example of what I'm talking about is applicable across all ages. Have you ever tried to pick up a woman when she's out with a couple of girlfriends of hers? It's infinitely harder than if she were there alone*. That's not unique to adults, it applies to kids and teens as well.

* Unless she went out with her friends and they all had the same idea in mind - "meat market".

Nikachelle wrote:Kids WILL find a way to do it. Whether or not you think they will. And saying that you're not parenting hard enough, or something, isn't really how it works. The more you tell your kid they're NOT allowed to do something, the more they want to do it and the more likely they are to find a way to do it.

I see. So, in your opinion, the solution is to not set limits with children, or if any are accidently set, not to enforce them?

"They're going to do it anyways, so don't dare tell them no", is not a solution. Its a cop out for lazy parents, and teens that don't like hearing no. I'd say I have a fair amount of knowledge on "how it works", and if you want to be an effective parent, you set consistent boundaries, and you enforce them.

Kelaan wrote: Sure, the world builds a better idiot, but if you can postpone their exposure to things like sex and alcohol and smoking until they actually know all about the nasty side effects ... they may be more likely to behave responsibly.

This is flawed, because we don't teach our children why they shouldn't do these things, just that they shouldn't. Kids are told "Drugs and sex are bad, mmmkay?", until they are finally exposed to them in a much more negative way than if they were properly educated. Cue 14 yr old mom and "dad" is sniffing glue in the parking lot.

It is about education. If there is a good reason not to have sex then you can teach that to them.

The problem then is that there is a conflict between what they know and what they want.
How teenagers handle that is based on (general personality/temperament and) how they were raised (both by parents and peers).

The bigger issue is teaching them self control and good decision making.


Past that point, the most efficient way to teach a teenager varies between individuals (obviously). There is no one right way to do it.

mew wrote:It is about education. If there is a good reason not to have sex then you can teach that to them.

The problem then is that there is a conflict between what they know and what they want.
How teenagers handle that is based on (general personality/temperament and) how they were raised (both by parents and peers).

The bigger issue is teaching them self control and good decision making.


Past that point, the most efficient way to teach a teenager varies between individuals (obviously). There is no one right way to do it.

And maturity is a big factor in the ability to make a good decision when it comes to what is right vs what they want. So, I tend to defer to the parent, who likely has the best gauge of child's abilities in this regard.

Yet parents are often blindest to the actions of their own children

Daeren wrote:Yet parents are often blindest to the actions of their own children

Myth. Parents know damn good and well what their kids are doing, unless there are outside influences (drugs, alcohol, or just plain bad parenting etc).

Parents will, however, generally defend their children to others, leading to the misconception that they're blind to the actions of their children.

cerwillis wrote:

Kelaan wrote:Sure, the world builds a better idiot, but if you can postpone their exposure to things like sex and alcohol and smoking until they actually know all about the nasty side effects ... they may be more likely to behave responsibly.

This is flawed, because we don't teach our children why they shouldn't do these things, just that they shouldn't. Kids are told "Drugs and sex are bad, mmmkay?", until they are finally exposed to them in a much more negative way than if they were properly educated. Cue 14 yr old mom and "dad" is sniffing glue in the parking lot.

I didn't mean not telling about it, merely restricting their access to the pitfalls themselves. I'm quite alright with explaining how it works, why it's bad, why it can be good later (once you can support kids), or all the financial costs that it entails.

If I have a table saw in the garage, I'll be telling my son all about how it works, the safety features, and probably even show him some lovely photos of people that had accidents or were careless. I want him to have a healthy fear/respect of the Bad Things that can happen, so that he takes proper precautions to ensure that he doesn't get mauled.

In the case of sex, I'll definitely make sure he knows how it works and how to protect himself, but I also hope to educate him on how badly it can change your life -- whether it's an unexpected kid that you're now mortgaging your life for before you've even started your own journey, or lesions in the brain, and other scary diseases. Of course I'll ensure there are protective bits that he has access to, but I also want to make damned sure that he knows how life-changing it can be.

As far as drugs? Well, a discussion of what drug possession/trafficing/dealing convictions have on job prospects or school admissions, not to mention the effects of the drugs themselves, ought to help. It's hard to say for things like pot/lsd/ecstasy where many users claim there are no detrimental side effects ... I don't really know enough about them to be able to mount an effective argument via "look how this affects you" the way one could for tobacco, alcohol, or meth. Fortunately I have a decade or so before I will be too worried about that.

Pot is stored in fat, and interferes with the production of various neurotransmitters. It is addictive (as is any other drug that has any effect on neurotransmitters, I don't care WHAT the potheads tell you otherwise). It's linked to memory loss in and of itself, plus the numerous effects that smoking anything has on the respiratory tract, among other incidental results of side effects - like weight gain from the munchies etc.

For LSD, just take him on a shock tour of a long term care ward at a Charter mental hospital, or your local equivalent. He can observe the braindead for himself. Closest thing we'll ever see to IRL zombies is someone that overdosed on LSD.

Ecstasy dehydrates the body and raises core temperatures to a dangerous level. It's quite easily fatal, even in relatively small doses. People who haven't died from it are just lucky. Show him some pictures of rabid animals and have him talk to a veterinarian. People who die from ecstasy almost always go through the same horrible death as animals that die from rabies.

Regarding sex, I'd rather my kid have smart, safe sex than do drugs or drink to excess. That's a matter of education though - teaching them how to prevent the transmission of disease, how not to get (someone else) pregnant, and providing them with prophylactics when they ask for them, or just keeping some around that they know how to get ahold of (and in convenient places, too - impulse control at that age? not so great) without the embarrassing part of asking the parents for them.

Before we had so many things that could kill or maim us, the child-rearing philosophy was "let them stick their hands in the fire. It's the best way to teach them that fire is hot". Using your table-saw as an example, run a hot dog or chicken drumstick through it. Let him see what happens first hand, instead of just telling him "no, that's bad". We don't credit our children with being able to reason, but we also don't give them enough credit. Assuming average mental processing development, kids are able to think abstractly fairly early on, any time between 2 and 6, with age 7 being the milestone for logical reasoning.

Edit: Oh shit, we were talking about a hypothetical kid here. My bad, mis-read it and thought you were talking about your actual kid.

The baseball field brings back some memories that I will give you as a domino effect.

Middleschool we where kissing and making out about 14 years old.

Summer passed and we where about 15 in our first year of highschool hit and we where hiding at the same baseball field and I was getting oral while her friend sat right around the corner out of LoS playing look out.

Later that year (same girl) I walked FOUR miles at midnight, lost my cherry and then walked the four miles home.. no one knew I left or that we where out in the middle of her backyard naked doing naughty things..


as for the reason for my post.. my mom was adamant about not wanting me to ever have sex but she DRILLED it into my head that if I was going to disobey her I damn well better use protection or else she would murder me.. my father believed if I felt that I was ready he was unwilling to stop me and also threatened to beat the hell out of me if I didn't use protection because "I am not becoming a grandfather before I hit 50 or else you die"

I didn't listen to them telling me to not do it.. but I did listen to them and I ALWAYS used protection until I moved out and was "an adult"

Kelaan wrote:As far as drugs? Well, a discussion of what drug possession/trafficing/dealing convictions have on job prospects or school admissions, not to mention the effects of the drugs themselves, ought to help. It's hard to say for things like pot/lsd/ecstasy where many users claim there are no detrimental side effects ... I don't really know enough about them to be able to mount an effective argument via "look how this affects you" the way one could for tobacco, alcohol, or meth. Fortunately I have a decade or so before I will be too worried about that.

Pot/Marijuana/Hashish= all the health concerns of smoking Tobacco, plus the additional concern of impaired judgment and it being illegal. Also, the people who say its "not habit forming" are lying/misinformed.

LSD= Possible permanent psychosis (mind you, there is some research suggesting that people getting this side effect had a predisposition to it). Impaired ability to discern reality, impaired judgment, increased risk of suicide, possibility of permanent neural damage. Also, some dealers will produce "bunk" LSD with chemicals like Rat Poison, which could be potentially lethal.

Ecstasy/XTC= Impaired judgment, looking stupid because you carry a pacifier to keep from grinding your teeth while under the influence, impaired ability to discern reality, potential death from even small doses.

...and it appears someone beat me to it.

There isn't really any disposition toward psychosis with LSD. The problem is that it's a threshold effect - it never leaves your nervous system, so the more you take the more builds up. Eventually that buildup is going to have a detrimental effect. Whether that ranges from mild flashbacks to full blown active catatonia depends on the amount of buildup.

It all boils down to "Drugs are bad, mm'kay".

Education is paramount.

When I read/hear stories of kids that shot themselves, it almost always seems to be the kids that had sheltered lives. The parents who wouldn't even let their kids have toy guns or even watch violence on tv. You don't really hear of redneck kids shooting themselves by accident. Generally, they'll know what a gun does and how it works...and have a healthy respect for it.

Melathys wrote:Education is paramount.

Just thought I'd quote this for a million internets worth of truth.

People seem to think that when I say contraceptive measures etc should be unrestricted I'm really saying HERE'S SOME CONDOMS GO HAVE SEX LOLOL, when really I'm talking about educating our kids first and foremost and then giving them failsafes if they decide that's a path they want to go down.

I tend to make horrible assumptions like parents are educating their kids on sexual health and stuff, I know, it's horrible of me.

This thread is now about:
1)How we lost our virginity stories.
2)Illegal drugs we have done.

It was about:
Should I let my kid go to the movies with a chick unsupervised.

To be fair, this IS Arkham.

god i was a fucking ANGEL compared to some of you!

my parents didnt trell me strictly NOT to have sex or do drugs, but i wasnt allowed to go on anything but groupdates until i was in HS.

sure there were times that i came close, but my respect for my parents and thier wishes stopped me from having actual intercourse until i was 20. now oral and various other sexual acts may have been earlier (as in 12...) but becuase of my upbringing, the church i went to and my parents not saying you will not! lead me to only having been with 3 women ever, and im marrying the third this summer, and i was married to the first.

if my parents had set out condoms for me, i sure as hell would have lost my virginity in middle school, adn prob been a father in high school, but they didnt do that and just told me what they expected of me.

and like many other ppl, i agree given his history then at least a pack of friends or possibly a parent chaperone would be best.

and i agree that making out is fine, just i wouldn let a 13 yr old alone with a girl in a movie theater. esp with what has happened to me in that situation.

my mom was a huge drug addict before she had me, adn i still have scars on my forehead where her friend and her drank a 18 pack of beer before church, and 3 hrs later my 2yr old head met the cars doorjamb when we got home. She never hid anything she did from us, nor did she make it easyt for us to do the same.

parenting is less about being right 100% of the time, and more about trying to do your best. each kid has to learn from thier own fuck ups, and hopefully yours as well.

i feel letting your 13 yr old have free acess to condoms will just say here go fuck your brains out and its ok. and i can speak from expirience even at 25 you really dont want to stop and put on a condom in the middle of something, so telling a 13 yr old its ok is just begging for a pregnancy.

sure he might do it anyway, but if you tell him its best that he waits, adn dont put your stamp of approval on it by having condoms for him, then you are reducing the chance he will.

i knwo i would have turned otu WAY different if i had been exposed to alchohol, drugs, and sex in my teens and was made to feel it was fine to do everything.

anyway back on topuic, i think you atre a great father for wanting him to go with a chaperone. your son will think you are evil, but when he grows uolder he will most likely look back at this and realize you had his best interest at heart. I know i do when i look back at my own history.

Could you kindly point out to me where anyone has advocated "Here's a pack of condom's, go fuck your brains out" as an approach. No really, I want to see where you're getting the idea that this is what we're saying.

Honestly, Drugs are the last thing that I have to worry about with my son.

His mother is a real life bonafide crack whore. His revulsion to drugs AND alcohol is so pronounced it borders on a little too much.

I don't drink alcohol (even something with dinner) because it bothers him. He tolerates Cigarettes because most of his family smokes, but Anything past that makes him more than a little pissed off. I have to talk with him all the time about taking his meds because he doesn't want to end up addicted and turn into the PoS that his mother is.


This has strayed way too far, and is way off point. I think we can just have this locked and let it die a peaceful death

Nawwww, let us have fun with it. I think we did quite well in answering your question before we derailed it into oblivion. O: