Poll: Am I a Mean dad, or responsible?

mew wrote:

Aergis wrote:Her parents can't make it, why don't you go?
Just curious. Then you both get your way, but you have to sit through the movie.

Who wouldn't want to sit through the new Twilight movie?!

I can list a few legitimate reasons from a critics POV

Lightbeard wrote:

mew wrote:

Aergis wrote:Her parents can't make it, why don't you go?
Just curious. Then you both get your way, but you have to sit through the movie.

Who wouldn't want to sit through the new Twilight movie?!

I can list a few legitimate reasons from a critics POV

Cause those critics, who spend all day in an office, watching movies and writing on them know what we people who work the streets know what we like.

And I have read though about half of the first book. The writing was good awful, and the whole POV from Bella just made me think she was always sucidial and Edward just got all wrapped up in her petty game.

*giggle* Lightbeard talking about what a professional movie critic might think about Twilight.

we people who work the streets

huh?

I'm actually in the middle of writing a piece about something like this.

Parents know their children. Like I was reading an article about the "worlds worst mom" cause she let her son ride the metro by himself. She knew the kid could do it, and he did. In your case, you know your kid, and are responding accordingly. If he was a, uh, responsible kid, you'd probably let him go by himself, but then you'd probably get people telling you that you are a terrible parent for letting him go by himself. damned if you do, damned if you don't.

My parents are my best friends...now that I'm an adult. I feel sorry for people whose parents tried to be their best friends when they were children, and now that they're adults, the parents have to try to be parents by bailing them out of problems. Sure, there are times you hate your parents growing up, but there's always a healthy respect there. As an adult, that respect turns into friendship. I feel I can talk to my parents about any problem I have as an adult, and their opinions weigh heavily upon my decisions.

anyway, yea. you're doing the right thing. you know your kid, and what he can and can't handle by himself.

13 years old isn't alot, but then again, it's a simple movie in the theatre.
I wouldn't know what earlier experience you have with your son about him breaking rules, but setting up rules that borderlines unreasonable, makes the effect of each rule much less. On the other hand, it's easier if he needs to break rules, that he breaks less important rules.
Ye, the situation at home might not be perfect environment for him to grow up in, but that shouldn't prevent him from living a normal life. He might have been into some bad situations earlier because of his illness, and that affects his history and his personality, and that might stay even after you treat ADHD. Don't let too much of the past hinder for how rules are now.
Maybe it's good for him to be let loose from the leash if only for a short time. It's more important that he learns that there are consequences if he doesn't follow the rules. And make sure he takes his meds, they aren't dangerous, it's only dangerous to go undermedicated because of fear of the meds.
When I come to think of it, he's 13, so even though you don't want it to happen, since he's too young and responsible, make sure he knows of and uses contraception, and the risks of sex. He's really young, but you never know, kids nowadays.

In other words, save the rules for sex, drugs, alcohol and what times he should be home at. Don't invalidate your rules by being too strict.
That's my opinion at least.

I think you're being perfectly reasonable. Your son has shown a tendency to not know boundaries and ones that can potentially land him in deep trouble. You're looking out for him and preventing a potentially bad situation from occurring. You may want to take the tact from one of the previous posts (I think from Mew?) and let him know that the better he behaves in the short-term, the more you will be able to let him do long term and feel comfortable about it.

--Jed

Shamora wrote:I'm sorry but your son is a teenager now. He hates you, you are the worst parent ever, why can't you be like X's parents, you're ruining his life, things are so much different from when you were a kid and he knows everything about everything.

Parenting isn't about being his friend, it's about being his parent. What you're doing is pretty much what I would do in this situation.

This is what I struggle with. He came to live with me on very odd terms. I was never the favorite parent, and since his mom is a tard, and he had to come live with me, that's my fault.

Sometimes I want to be the friend because I've never been the favorite. But it is pretty hard to remember that later on down the road, he will return to being a human and not a teenager

In other words, save the rules for sex, drugs, alcohol and what times he should be home at. Don't invalidate your rules by being too strict.
That's my opinion at least.

Based on the behavior at the baseball field, and "no one is to be in the house when a parent isn't home" to come home and find him making out with his GF in his room the bolded part is the basis for the 'sorry, you need an adult there' as well as the penchant for defacing public property whenever he can.

There's nothing bad about making out as a 13 y old, why stop that? It's perfectly normal, and should be encouraged.
And I don't know what incidents have happened before and after baseball practices, if they were any worse.

Shoju wrote:Based on the behavior at the baseball field, and "no one is to be in the house when a parent isn't home" to come home and find him making out with his GF in his room the bolded part is the basis for the 'sorry, you need an adult there' as well as the penchant for defacing public property whenever he can.

This is kind of why no one can answer your question really. None of us will know all the circumstances and none of us can know your son as well as you. I don't think a 13 yr old unattended at a movie or with a girl is unreasonable. However, without sufficient context, which requires rather intimate knowledge of your son, it's impossible for any of us to assess the risk that such a situation would cross the bounds into actions that are inappropriate.

Daeren wrote:There's nothing bad about making out as a 13 y old, why stop that? It's perfectly normal, and should be encouraged.

Well from what I gather, it's not the making out that's a problem, it's the propensity for that to go beyond making out to what Shoju (and the law it seems) has deemed is inappropriate. Of course it's normal for a 13 year old to be interested in making out with a girl. That does not mean that he should have unfettered and unsupervised access. There's an old joke that God gave men two heads, but only enough blood to work one at a time. It might be hyperbole but it's not exactly an uncharacteristic description of a 13 year old's behavior at times. If someone has a history of showing poor judgement in these situations, then a parent, being a parent and requiring supervision during these encounters is pretty reasonable.

On the other hand, kids find ways to do what they want, no matter how strict rules.
If they want to have sex, then they will have sex, no matter what rules Shoju set. You can try to convince him that it's a bad idea, but nothing will stop him from doing it. The only thing should be done is to at least make sure he has access to contraception, because nothing sucks worse than getting another 13y old pregnant.

In my position, if a 13 y old girl comes to my office and wants birth control pills, I can of course choose to not prescribe it to her and tell her that she's underaged and it's against the law and so on. But ultimately, she'll go on and have asex anyhow. I can of course only tell her to use condoms because of STDs, but I can't guarantee that it's being used in the heat of the moment. Even though the chance of getting pregnant is pretty low, I'd still prescribe her birth control pills because the outcome is so much worse. I didn't feel quite comfortable doing it the times it's been an issue, but it's how it is.

So, be more worried if he practices safe sex rather than if he does it. Because if not today, maybe not tomorrow, but somewhere in the near future it will happen. And you can of course advice him to not have sex until he's older, and you don't have to openly give opportunities for him to have sex, but it's not worth to be overly strict just to make sure. Save the strictness for stuff like pot or alcohol.

And what happens when that girl takes an antibiotic, misses her pill for a couple days, etc?

Just because a teen will have sex if they want, regardless of the rules, hardly means adults should encourage it. Yes, teens will have sex if they want regardless of the restrictions placed on them; however, I seriously believe that those restrictions have prevented more pregnancy then the open distribution of birth control and condoms could.

That's like giving your teenager the bottle of vodka because he's going to find a way to drink if he really wants to.

I never really understood how people could honestly believe that supplying the means to prevent things such as unwanted pregnancy is the cause of them. Maybe it's just how I was raised or something, since I don't see having easy access to such devices as encouraging the behavior, but I see the opposite as quite negligent. It's kinda like burying your head in the sand in some of the extreme cases I've seen and heard of.

This is getting kind of off topic though.

Levantine wrote:...since I don't see having easy access to such devices as encouraging the behavior, but I see the opposite as quite negligent.

How is providing these things NOT encouraging it? You are encouraging safe sex, but when your teen finds out that sex without a condom feels a lot better who's to say he decides to risk it?

I'm not saying no teenager should have access, but neither should it be open access for every teen. Especially ones that aren't in high school yet.

Edit: I guess what I'm trying to say is this...

There are SO many variables. Every teenager is different. I believe both extremes of open access and complete withholding are flawed. You need to do what you think is right and best, for your individual teen.

I think we've had this discussion on the board before (not us personally, but it's been done), and I've already said my piece. Needless to say I disagree with your restrictive view on contraception etc, but I don't feel like derailing Shoju's thread any further.

Sorry for derailing the thread, but I still stand by my point that you should try to discourage it, not make artificial rules to prevent it.

Levantine wrote:*giggle* Lightbeard talking about what a professional movie critic might think about Twilight.

Sorry for the late response but http://theoatmeal.com/story/twilight

Pretty much nails the entire thing down.

Daeren wrote:On the other hand, kids find ways to do what they want, no matter how strict rules.
If they want to have sex, then they will have sex, no matter what rules Shoju set. You can try to convince him that it's a bad idea, but nothing will stop him from doing it. The only thing should be done is to at least make sure he has access to contraception, because nothing sucks worse than getting another 13y old pregnant.

In my position, if a 13 y old girl comes to my office and wants birth control pills, I can of course choose to not prescribe it to her and tell her that she's underaged and it's against the law and so on. But ultimately, she'll go on and have asex anyhow. I can of course only tell her to use condoms because of STDs, but I can't guarantee that it's being used in the heat of the moment. Even though the chance of getting pregnant is pretty low, I'd still prescribe her birth control pills because the outcome is so much worse. I didn't feel quite comfortable doing it the times it's been an issue, but it's how it is.

So, be more worried if he practices safe sex rather than if he does it. Because if not today, maybe not tomorrow, but somewhere in the near future it will happen. And you can of course advice him to not have sex until he's older, and you don't have to openly give opportunities for him to have sex, but it's not worth to be overly strict just to make sure. Save the strictness for stuff like pot or alcohol.

Actually, you can go a long way to preventing a 13yr old from having sex, simply because they aren't mobile. As a parent you need to have boundaries and for those boundaries to have meaning there has to be some sort of enforcement. If you are going parent based on what your child might be able to get away with when you are not looking, then I think you'll find that you won't be parenting much at all.

I have to admit the giant contradiction of your last sentence kind of blew me away though.

Nakama wrote:I think you're being perfectly reasonable. Your son has shown a tendency to not know boundaries and ones that can potentially land him in deep trouble. You're looking out for him and preventing a potentially bad situation from occurring. You may want to take the tact from one of the previous posts (I think from Mew?) and let him know that the better he behaves in the short-term, the more you will be able to let him do long term and feel comfortable about it.

--Jed

Well, the problem is that they don't think that far ahead My sister still misbehaved for a good 2-3 years after that. (I don't know why I didn't think to post this sooner actually) It wasn't until she actually got in trouble with non-parental forces and lost something important that she cared about that she actually changed.
She got in to a really good residential magnet school type thing (she was 15) with a 0 tolerance policy for drugs and alcohol. I went there too, there is still a lot of drugs, alcohol, and sex. I told her "You shouldn't do drugs, it's important to be able to have fun without them. But more importantly don't do anything like that there at least for your first year so you can get the hang of things. If you really can't go without it then do it when you come home for the weekends. If you can't last that long without it then you have a problem that you need to get help with, but I have friends you can talk to that smoked and can tell you how to safely get away with weed at that school."
Of course her response was denying my offer to help, acting offended, and saying, "I don't smoke weed".

So... Being the awesome teenager that she was, she ended up getting kicked out in the first 6 weeks for having weed in her purse. I mean, with the limited knowledge I had I at least told her "hide it in the woods outside, not in the school", what she did was unimaginably stupid. But she just had no concept for authority. She would get caught at home all the time and get in trouble (grounded, not going to friend's houses, etc), I think she felt like nothing that bad could really happen to her. I felt so bad and she was so so sad for weeks, but she understood that it was no one's fault but her own.

After that she fast tracked her high school, graduated in a year (instead of 2 more years), and went to college. She is still extremely attached to her friends from junior high and high school (the ones that smoked a lot with her) and still drinks with them but she is much better at controlling herself. One really important thing is that she feels comfortable telling our mom about her drinking and things, which means that for one we know what she is up to, and also that she is proud of herself and not ashamed that she has to hide what she does.
My mom would still instinctively be somewhat controlling over her about going to friends' houses when she would come home for vacations and weekends. But my sister would joke back at her "You know that in a few days I'm going back to school and will be able to go wherever I want " (she didn't say it in a mean or nasty way, it's hard for me to describe/convey the full meaning), and then mom would let her go hang out with friends :V

Teenagers don't realize how easy they have it. I straight up told her at certain points that she needs to appreciate our mom because our mom would know she was sneaking out, smoking, doing who knows what else, but she wouldn't tell our dad who would have just flipped shit and made everything worse.

A lot of teens need to fuck something up for themselves before they realize that they need to behave better. As long as they don't permanently screw themselves over or fall in to a downward spiral then they should be alright if they can learn from the mistakes.

However, getting a girl pregnant (and with how few teens consider abortion or adoption these days) is one of the permanent fuckups that you can't really get away from.

Parenting is hard I don't want to have children.

This will be my last post on the topic.

@the ball field: 'worse', mainly because you don't shove your hands up a girls shirt in the middle of a public place, with lots of people (and young kids), around. That's bad taste. Yes, I think its great that he is experiencing emotions, and has genuine interest in another human being, and being affectionate. We're not just talking about the sex part though. That is a half the problem. The other half of the problem (and the one with a documented police history) is his 'criminal' activities.

Put the two together, and I'm just not comfortable with the situation. I feel confident in my decision to say no.

Thanks to all for your comments.

Yes. Teenage pregnancy is crazy. I was 16 when his mom (15) got pregnant with him. I was 17, and she was 16 when he was born. We practiced safe sex, and the condom broke. We surely weren't planning to have kids, or even be together that long. It was a summer fling kind of thing. I would be lying if I said that didn't influence my decisions on things, both positively and negatively. Here I am, 30, and my oldest son is 13, that definitely changes how you look at things. I'm still young enough to remember the stupid things I did because no one was around, and still young enough to remember that I can't just hold him hostage in the house because that will make him fight back even more against the rules that I set forth for him.

Like I said before, If there was a parent, or other responsible family member going, I wouldn't mind, and I would go myself if they waited until the weekend. I'm ok with the responsible party sitting several rows away. Knowing that someone is there is enough to keep any of the ridiculous behaviors in check, and really, that is all I'm talking about curbing. And FTR: My definition of ridiculous behavior doesn't include making out.

Fridmarr wrote:Actually, you can go a long way to preventing a 13yr old from having sex, simply because they aren't mobile. As a parent you need to have boundaries and for those boundaries to have meaning there has to be some sort of enforcement. If you are going parent based on what your child might be able to get away with when you are not looking, then I think you'll find that you won't be parenting much at all.

I have to admit the giant contradiction of your last sentence kind of blew me away though.

They'll find a way, some way or the other. You can try all you want, but you'll just postpone it for a bit. And the situation might be worse. I'm not saying you shouldn't have boundaries, but requiring family present at all times, even through the movie is stretching it too far. How can you have rules without trust? Are you going to have someone tail your kid all the way from school until home?
I much rather ensure that he'd have safe sex than trying to avoid it. Just as when I was 15, I got a sixpack of beer to bring to parties (Norway has 18 year restriction for buying beer) from my parents so I wouldn't drink liquor or share alcohol with others. You know that a teenager is going to drink at the parties, you can just try to have a talk about how much, and try to make sure it's safer than the kid trying out by himself. That's my point of view anyhow, might not work out for all.

And quite frankly, if you're referring to the last sentence, I would say that there's a huge difference. Safe sex isn't just harmful like drugs and alcohol, it's healthy (might be bad for school if kids start missing out on school to fuck around).

Daeren wrote:

Fridmarr wrote:Actually, you can go a long way to preventing a 13yr old from having sex, simply because they aren't mobile. As a parent you need to have boundaries and for those boundaries to have meaning there has to be some sort of enforcement. If you are going parent based on what your child might be able to get away with when you are not looking, then I think you'll find that you won't be parenting much at all.

I have to admit the giant contradiction of your last sentence kind of blew me away though.

They'll find a way, some way or the other. You can try all you want, but you'll just postpone it for a bit. And the situation might be worse. I'm not saying you shouldn't have boundaries, but requiring family present at all times, even through the movie is stretching it too far. How can you have rules without trust? Are you going to have someone tail your kid all the way from school until home?
I much rather ensure that he'd have safe sex than trying to avoid it. Just as when I was 15, I got a sixpack of beer to bring to parties (Norway has 18 year restriction for buying beer) from my parents so I wouldn't drink liquor or share alcohol with others. You know that a teenager is going to drink at the parties, you can just try to have a talk about how much, and try to make sure it's safer than the kid trying out by himself. That's my point of view anyhow, might not work out for all.

And quite frankly, if you're referring to the last sentence, I would say that there's a huge difference. Safe sex isn't just harmful like drugs and alcohol, it's healthy (might be bad for school if kids start missing out on school to fuck around).

I'm not saying don't provide access to condoms, or that you can always completely prevent it, but that doesn't mean you willfully put your child in a high risk situation. The entire crux of your argument is based on the lack of trust, and not just lack of trust but also the lack of sound judgement, otherwise there's no need to provide access.

The point is, Shoju is dealing with someone who has a history of giving in to impulse, and hey he's 13, that's what 13 year olds do, especially boys when it comes to girls. When someone lacks the maturity to properly deal with such impulses, the fact that he has access to a condom is not going to stop him from having unprotected sex. Maybe he runs out, maybe he just doesn't have one on him at the time, maybe he just doesn't want to stop the action, whatever, but given his history reducing the frequency of these interactions also reduces the chances of getting a girl pregnant.

I could make the argument that a single glass of certain alcoholic beverages are good for you too or certainly not harmful. As a parent what you are concerned about is the abuse of it or the use of it without sound judgement, thus the massive contradiction of your last sentence to the rest of your post not even getting into the parenting tactics contradiction.

Daeren wrote:

Fridmarr wrote:Actually, you can go a long way to preventing a 13yr old from having sex, simply because they aren't mobile. As a parent you need to have boundaries and for those boundaries to have meaning there has to be some sort of enforcement. If you are going parent based on what your child might be able to get away with when you are not looking, then I think you'll find that you won't be parenting much at all.

I have to admit the giant contradiction of your last sentence kind of blew me away though.

They'll find a way, some way or the other. You can try all you want, but you'll just postpone it for a bit. And the situation might be worse. I'm not saying you shouldn't have boundaries, but requiring family present at all times, even through the movie is stretching it too far. How can you have rules without trust? Are you going to have someone tail your kid all the way from school until home?
I much rather ensure that he'd have safe sex than trying to avoid it. Just as when I was 15, I got a sixpack of beer to bring to parties (Norway has 18 year restriction for buying beer) from my parents so I wouldn't drink liquor or share alcohol with others. You know that a teenager is going to drink at the parties, you can just try to have a talk about how much, and try to make sure it's safer than the kid trying out by himself. That's my point of view anyhow, might not work out for all.

And quite frankly, if you're referring to the last sentence, I would say that there's a huge difference. Safe sex isn't just harmful like drugs and alcohol, it's healthy (might be bad for school if kids start missing out on school to fuck around).

I despise the "they're gonna do it anyways" argument. Its weak, and an excuse bad parents use to justify being negligent. Basically, anytime I hear this, I call bullshit. If you aren't out there trying to keep your kid on the straight and narrow, you aren't doing your job as a parent, whether you're successful or not.

Kids WILL find a way to do it. Whether or not you think they will. And saying that you're not parenting hard enough, or something, isn't really how it works. The more you tell your kid they're NOT allowed to do something, the more they want to do it and the more likely they are to find a way to do it.