Kings

So there is a great debate about to ensue on my guilds forums and I thought I might address it to you guys and see what you say. I'm sure its been tackled but I a tad lazy, don't feel like pawing through topics, and I'm at work so its hard enough to post this.

As a prot pally I don't feel its nessisary to take 5 tp and put it into kings. Dont get me wrong its a nessisary buff but who takes the hit? My guild plans on doing 25 mans if that helps at all but we're trying to figure out who will take it. I want to do a 5/54/12 which does not include kings (or judgment of the just if your wondering). I have 3/3 in imp hammer and imp devo.

Our holy pally has this for a build for crit out the ass:
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAzxGzhVuMxRtZVcbx0h

He is saying that ret pally's should take the kings buff. Now like I said we are going to be a 25 man raiding guild not a 10 man so specing (imo) will be a little different. Like I said I'm at work so I cant see any talent tree's atm or post what I plan on doing. but I would just like some feedback
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BIG HANDS

Prot and Ret paladins sacrifices for 5/5 Kings are considerably smaller than Holy's sacrifices. For ret specifically the sacrifice is nil pve-wise.

If it's between a prot and a holy pally, i'd say prot gets it. Seals of the Pure isn't half as helpful as you think it is
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Death Spacegoat and Spankadin in development.
Spreading the Holy Protection and the Diseases since 2008.

We're having this discussion too. Irony of ironies, we're going from a situation where EVERYBODY has kings to potentially nobody having it. Admittedly, as a tankadin, I'm going to want to bless Sanct on myself and the warriors, but of course, I would like Kings, but can only do one. Our holys don't want it so they can get conviction over in Ret, and the Ret pallies see sooooo much yummy goodness in the tree that sacrificing 10 points in prot (str and kings) is out of the question. I'm going to be a sad panda if nobody is willing to do it, I may have to pull rank, and insist upon it.
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Seriously? Sanctuary is the main tanking Blessing in the game... Why would you not want 3% Damage Reduction and Mana return on Blocks, Parries, Dodges and Misses?

Why would you not want both? That means that a Spankadin and/or a Healadin needs to have it too, prefrably a Spankadin.
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Sworn: We do bad things to bad people.

Yadard - 70 - Moonglade

Improved retri aura... If my retri dares using anything but that one I'll slap him.

And it is true. Unless you have hunters around or no DPS warrior your retri doesn't need imp might. And imho it is the holy's who will pick it up on their way to Conviction.
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I think the changes in our 3.0.x talents and abilities were meant to suggest that Holy Paladins will be using Concentration Aura and Blessing of Wisdom, Protection Paladins will be using Devotion Aura and Blessing of Sanctuary on themselves, Blessing of Kings on others, and Retribution Paladins will be using Retribution Aura and Blessing of Might.

However, I honestly think we have the most to lose. the The MT is the most demanding role in any raid, expecting them to be well equipped, specialized, and skilled. If it were only 1 point I wouldn't hesitate to purchase it (I actually have the 2% buff in my talent build), but 5 points is just too much! Perhaps we should petition for Blizzard to return it to one point, but move it deeper into the tree as it once was?

If we do decide to pick up Blessing of Kings, which other abilities should we give up for it? I'm considering that right now.
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Honestly, I'd either like to see kings go away and the content balanced without it, or...

I'd love to see kings become a baseline buff and Blessing of Sanctuary be changed to simply Sanctuary. It would have the current effect of reduced damage for the paladin, as well as adding the mana/rage/energy/runic return to our kings buff (improved kings, basically).

It would make it nice and easy, Holy casts Wisdom, Ret casts Might, Prot casts Kings (when all three are present, at least).


Given that there isn't a complimentary buff to kings, something needs to be done. This would also smooth things out since 10 man raiding will have a complete progression path and in a 10 man, it's likely there wouldn't be a paladin of each spec.
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"Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the hammer I go get and beat you with to show you who's in ruttin' command." -Jayne

Tbh at 70 is it even worth Holy pallies speccing into ret? 51/0/10 means they can't get the crit and well you'd be stupid not to take beacon... surely at 70 holy pallies can spec 51/5/5 or such fine? I'm thinking about dropping Kings for 70 and discussing with the holys (I know at least 1 already has BoK to play with). We will always have either a retridin or a DPS warr in the raid for BS/BoM so they won't need to spec into that.
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At level 70 holy will pick up kings without loss while ret can not. At 80 this situation filps so that ret will pick up kings without loss while holy will not.
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Majiben
If we wanted Ret to be a joke, we would have just left the tree as it was, and maybe kicked it a little for good measure. -GC