SoR vs SoV - Ultimate Battle!

Conclusion: SoV is better until 1200-1300 spell damage, which is not attaintable whilst maintaing gear that is MT worthy in high end instances. So, pick the seal that works best for you.

Rest of post:
Ok so basically I finally got round to working out when SoR and SoV become equal in terms of DPS (TPS). I have checked it loads and loads of times and reworked everything out from scratch to make sure it was correct. I am confident it mostly is, the ansews I get are sensible. There is one thing that I am unsure about and that is a probability, it will be clear when you read it.

Avoidance and practicalities are now factored in to conclusions.

Another thing >_> since I hate typing maths, I wrote it all down and scanned it, apologies in advance if you cannot read my handwriting, it looks awful on screen compared to what it actually looks like.

ADVICE: I just seen that it looks rather bad at 100%, so ZOOM OUT your browser to 80 or 90% to read it (Ctrl mousewheel if you don't know). Again sorry for the scans but I am not typing all this out ><, but if it is that bad I will.

1) http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8306/sorvssov1go2.jpg
2) http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/838/sorvssov2cw0.jpg
3) http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/754/sorvssov3ec3.jpg
4) http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/140/sorvssov4ih3.jpg
5) http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6631/sorvssov5wv8.jpg
6) http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/5859/sorvssov6kg3.jpg

Code: http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/2060/sorvssovmaplevy9.jpg

"Based on testing, the instant SoV damage is given by E = (10 + SD/88 )*weapon speed"

I derived this, if you want to see the test data you can request it and I'll post it, but after picking random spell damage values, working out the expected damage, going to my char and getting said SD and testing, it was basically perfect.

Basically the conclusions are:

1) Assuming constant 5 stacked SoV, you need 1224 for SoR to equal it, and more than 1224 makes SoR better. This is not accurate;

2) Factoring in practicalities of SoV, it was found from another threat that the average stack is around 4.6 assuming 5 expertise and 3/3 precision. This means that the seals are equal at 1074 spell damage instead. This has not factored in practicalities of SoR (mob avoidance etc). Again if you have any info I'd be very grateful for it It is probably more affected and thus the cut off point goes back up, maybe even past the 1224 perfect scenario value. This is not accurate either, as is pretty obvious;

3) Factoring in the math done by jere and other people on SoR avoidance, you get a value of about 1200-1300 (because the avoidance of SoR is quite variable). This IS accurate.

It is possible in ideal extreme end game gear to get very high levels of spell damage in a good main tanking set, it's a bit "Perfect" but when people are in sunwell and farming half of it, it won't be so far away (to some it's probably almost there already).

JotC is 266 including libram of zeal, Oil is 42, WoA untalented is 101. This cuts the required SD down by 409. You can add divine spirit, food buff (maybe) whatever, anything else to increase spell damage, in T6 and non set palatank BT items, this can happen.

However, the long and short of it is SoV hates me, so SoR it is

My TPS on teron is around 1050-1100, another 160 SD will add ~101 TPS (using the 1SD = 0.63 conversion), and also I will get more HP meaning I can use the exalted BT rep trinket in my main tanking setup, this adds 60 TPS, so hopefully I'm looking to be pushing towards 1210-1260 TPS, enabling melee DPS (my main threat rivals ) to do 2469-2571 DPS. In essence I am justifing my lazyness of use of SoV (it also ahtes me profoundly!). Combining the fact that I don't really need to hugely increase my threat with the fact that SoV always fails miserably for me whenever I think about using it, and also that weaving in SoV between SoR swings of vice versa would really stress my already tight GCD juggling (burning mana via RF, cleansing, combat buffing (I buff salv/sanc usually) etc).

I have always told myself that I would change my ways (regarding any matter) the moment it consistantly becomes an issue, as soon my threat becomes a constant problem when using my current methods I will seriously reconsider. That is just my experience, everyone is ofc different. SoV just hates me :p (I try to be unbiased and note when it works well, it seems to always work well on Void Reaver and I always use it there combined with SoR (sometimes) but generally, nope )
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Edited, added a few things in that I missed off. If you didn't see the edits, check them .
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How do you arrive at JotC being 266 SD? It's listed at 219 base since the 2.3 changes.
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*including libram of zeal, forgot to add that in >_>
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Ah, much obliged.

Very in depth analysis, and the conclusion doesn't surprise me all that much. To be reaching those levels of SD, your threat would already be pretty crazy.

What I'm more curious about is the TPS difference between the two seals in the more modest 400-600 SD bracket of most Hyjal/BT starting protection paladins. Just out of curiosity, not that I could ever use SoV I'll try using that to work it out for myself.
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Without doing any math, if you are at 500 SD buffed I would say it is a rather noticeable difference, the big difference is when you are starting raiding/leveling your char etc, when you have like 0-200 SD, then the difference is huge.

Anyway the typical things you will tank in MH are not suited for SoV anyway (adds, basically), and in BT supremus is not suited for SoV really either, and akama definatly not so.

Anyway back on topic that was just a small aside.
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I want you to do another test. One that would answer once and for all a nagging question thats been bugging me.

The viability of SoR/SoV juggling.

The process is simple adn requires at least oen point in imp judgement to be effective but it goes like this.

Use SoV get a full stack of dots.
Judge, use SoR.
Judge as soon as its up then quickly reapply.
Repeat till dead.

From what I gather I beleive you can produvce a great deal of threat during the SoR phase with the dot ticking and SoR up while still getting some pretty nasty SoV judges.
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70 Prot Pally
Muahahaha 70 Warlock
Kalishnakov 60 Hunter

Updated with conclusions in text form, and some other tweaks.
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i have to say, i have tested SoV and SoR in kara (not looking at TPS though)
i found that having SoV on the whole time gave FAR less agro and i had to go back to SoR midfight

then i tried juggling, SoVs proc just isnt good enough to really do it realiably
and spamming seals back on forth would be complete hell for global cooldowns
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http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Gul%27dan&n=Izak

With what speed a weapon, with what spell damage, buffs, debuffs?
It works, cuz I do it quite regularly, though to be fair the only stuff in Kara I use SoV on is......
Curator (V. Good boss for this), Nightbane, Illhoof, Netherspite, and Prince.
SoV makes your threat - if you were to put it into a time vs threat based chart, makes your threat generation much more like a Warriors in that it ramps up, you should not used SoV directly due to this since your DPS will have learned to treat your threat in a different manner.
One, or two JoRs+SoRs whilst building stacks with a slow weapon.

Don't forget the important part.

I like the math posted. It makes everything easier to follow, so thanks for that. I do have one question, though. I might have missed this but, I didn't see where you accounted for dodges/misses/parries and how they affect SoR damage.

For the ideal case, the one with the 1200ish crossover point, it won't matter since you are going for ideal SoV, so it is only fair to assume ideal SoR as well. However, in the portion where you do the 4.6 SoV stack, I didn't see where the same adjustments were made for SoR. Was it still considered ideal for that calculation? I think it should be under the same constraints as SoV if so.

If I missed the part where you adjust SoR dps for dodges/misses/parries, I apologize. I am a bit sleepy, so I could have easily missed that section.
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Two things:

1) What if you do an ability timing like the following (the idea is to keep 5 stacks of Vengeance @ all times and only judge righteousness):

@ Jere no I haven't included that yet, have been busy etc, I asked in my first post if anyone has already done anything like this to post something here. I think i saw somewhere in another thread that it was something like SoR is reduced in effectiveness by 23% or so? Obviously I have to have it confirmed or work it out before i put it in :p.
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