Please keep this thread on-topic.
It's a basic training FAQ for how to be a MT.
Updated based clearing everything, inc Sarth+3 10 & 25, and PTR 3.0.8 info.
Feel free to make further suggestions.
Philosophy of the FAQ AKA: Knaughty is biased
Skip this section if you're uninterested in my personal viewpoint. Actual answers start in Mechanics & play changes.
Q: What's the point & purpose of this FAQ?
A: Short & simple answers for people who want a quick fix.
The basic assumption is that the reader is a protection spec paladin who hasn't followed every beta patch note in gory detail, or read every single thousand-post sticky on this forum. You logged on in 3.0, went "WTF" and need some quick answers. Or you're a Holy/Ret/SomeOtherClass re-roll wanting some quick advice on how to tank as a pally.
If you don't like the shortness of the answers, do your own damn research - the links under I want more info! near the end of this post are a great start.
Q: You're biased!
A: Yes, very.
This is a guide for people who want to be "progression raiding main tanks". It assumes you'll be MTing a 25, maybe a 10 as well. The FAQ also doesn't present the subtleties - just the "standard answer". There are no provisos or nuanced examples of edge cases. It also heavily favours "real tanking experience" over theory-craft or mind experiments. Given the timing, that means having cleared 25-man content in 3.0, at least as far as Malygos.
Q: I think you're wrong and am going to flame you!
A: Official forums ---> thataway. Oh, and expect to be flamed back, I enjoy it.
Q: You're rude and mean!
A: Yup.
It's not really true though. Ask a polite question (even a noob one) and you'll get a polite (if terse) answer (and maybe an update to the FAQ if I think the question is "F" enough). Ask a rude or argumentative question, and I'll joyfully tear you apart. Sorry, it's a flaw, I enjoy baiting the trolls.
Q: You don't talk about trash mobs, enchants, or detailed gear selection!
A: Correct! Being a MT is a responsibility, you need to be willing to learn how to do your job. If you need that level of training the links under I want more info! near the end of this post are a great start. The FAQ is to get you started with the basics in an easy raid instance (Naxx). After that... you're on your own. I assume you've tanked 5-mans & heroics, and can do the basics.
Q: You're just regurgitating stuff Lore / Psiven / Worldie / etc have already posted!
A: Yup. That's the point.
Mechanics & play changes:
Q: What seal do I use?
A: SoV Maybe SoR for trash that ill die in 5 secs.
Q: Someone said SoB is more threat?
A: It isn't See advanced tanking thread for maths. Short version: It does less TPS and it damages you. Don't do it.
Q: What do I judge for threat?
A: JoLight until 3.0.8 You get the healing threat, and RF applies. 1.3 threat per point healed. Will be fixed in 3.0.8 to do zero threat, at which point Ret should judge it (biggest heal).
Q: WTF? Thunderjudge fell off?
A: Yell at the ret pally
Tell the ret pallies and holy pallies what you're judging (light) and tell them they must not use that judgement. As of 3.0.3, judgements overwrite each other and the talented debuff portion can get removed. I think this applies to Heart of the Crusader as well. Basically, each spec has to pick a judgement and stick to that one.
Q: What Glyphs?
A: At 70: Righteous Defence and Judgement. Minor Inscriptions are Minor (except Sense Undead)
A: At 80: Righteous Defence and SoV to start. Third one: Avenger's shield is more threat than Judgment if you don't mind single target AS. Come 3.0.8, AS glyph gets comparatively worse as we have Taunt to break Sheep single target.
Q: Why not Glyph of Consecration?
A: Breaks your rotation. See my Advanced FAQ for details, or read Psiven't TPS tsticky.
Q: I just got crushed. I thought crushing blows were removed?
A: Crushing blows kick in at level+4 Raid bosses don't crush. The level 80 elite is going to crush your level 70 ass.
Q: If nothing can crush, do I need 102.4%?
A: No (but...). You don't need it, but it is a nice goal to hit, and it will make you healers happy. Once you hit 102.4, BV=EH, and we're ahead of the warriors on EH. Second most important gearing goal after uncrit is Block Capped.
Q: How much defence do I need?
A: Heroics: 535
A: Raids: 540 About 689 rating. This is a lot, you will have to focus on it.
Q: I'm short on Defense. What do I do?
A: Gem & Enchant for it Expect to have mostly +defence gems and enchants to start Naxx, and even throughout it. Reaching and staying at 540 Defence is a major tanking focus at 80.
Q: That sucks! Why?
A: Blizzard got bored of tanks gemming nothing but stamina Damage is a lot less spiky and dramatic on level 80 tanks. So desperately stacking EH is much less of an issue. Balanced gemming / enchanting is the outcome.
Q: Whats this 96969 rotation stuff??? Can you explain it pls?
A: Yes., but not here. See my Advanced FAQ or Psiven's original version
Q: What's going on with Divine Shield and Divine Protection?
A: Divine Shield = immune, clear debuffs, drop aggro. And soak raid damage, if you're specced Divine Guardian.
A: Divine Protection = Bubblewall We can tank an enrage real good now. Spec AD to maximise.
Q: ZOMG! Did I block an elemental?
A: Yes. You can block magical melee damage now.
Gear:
Q: What's my overall gearing priority?
First: • Get Uncrittable (540 defence)
Block set: • Get Block Capped AKA 102.4%, AKA Uncrushable.
EH set: • Stack stamina. Stamina is EH, with a little TPS. Strength is TPS, with a little EH.
Last: Threat set: • Stack strength, then BV.
Q: What weapon do I use?
A: Tanking weapon. Spell-power weapons are for healing, not tanking. Weapon speed is irrelevant.
Q: What weapon enchant?
A: At 70: Potency (20 strength) for threat and EH via a little BV. Agility for 0.8% Dodge.
A: At 80: Wait for 3.0.8 and hope the +75 stamina enchant goes live.
Q: Which temp enchant?
A: At 80: None Removed from game
Q: What tanking gear?
A: Plate with defence Tanking plate is tanking plate. DK/War/Pal all use same stuff. Sensible DKs will pass on stuff with block rating/value. You'll maybe pass on stuff with a ton of parry to return the favour. Protection tanks (war/pal) want exact same stuff.
Q: ZOMG! My gear has no spellpower!
A: Well spotted. Everything scales with AP & Spell-power. You get spell-power from Stam and AP from Strength. Stack stats if you want TPS/DPS.
Q: Strength, AP, or Spell-power for DPS/TPS?
A: Strength > BV > AP > Spell. EG: AP trinkets > Spell trinkets. You should never have spell-power gear on unless you're healing.
Q: I want to DPS as prot spec!
A: BV trinkets AP if you don't have them. DMC: Greatness (Strength) > all.
A: Ret gear, 1h weapon, shield But Do not downgrade to switch to ret gear. High end tanking gear is high DPS. Don't switch from epic tanking gear to crappy blue quest-reward ret gear. Only switch in Ret items that are same tier or half a tier down, and only if that have more Strength.
Q: What gems?
A: Defence (to 540) > Stamina/Avoidance > Strength Don't ever use spelldamage gems. You will need more defence gems at 80 than you did at 70. Strength beats Agility. Defence beats Dodge. Expertise beats Hit (or crit). Dodge beats Parry. Don't gem parry or agility if you have any other option.
Q: What enchant do I use on <this> slot?
A: Defence > Stam > everything else
A: For what? Are you short DPS/TPS? EH? Are you critable? How's your avoidance? There is no one right answer. Enchants are how you tune your gear. Stamina, Defence, Strength, Armor, Avoidance are all good enchants. Which one is best depends on the rest of your gear and the fight in question. L2P - you have to be able to evaluate your own gear! Read stickies for more advice.
Q: Should I try to cap expertise or hit?
A: Not really. Expertise is a nice TPS stat, +hit is nice for taunt, but just live with what's on your best tanking gear. Long answer here
Spec questions:
Q: Should I spec Reckoning?
A: Usually Not. Your tanking seal is SoV, and reckoning doesn't help. Worst DPS/TPS "fill my spec" talent of the three available (Reck/SotP/Conviction). If you really, really don't need Kings maybe spec 3/5. Read Advanced FAQ for more info.
Q: Do I need to spec for threat?
A: No. (but...) You don't need extra threat (in Tier 7). But it's good to spec for extra damage if you want, especially at 80 (or for levelling). More DPS is more DPS, even if it comes from the tank. Bonus damage also makes soloing more pleasant. As of 3.0.3 least bad TPS/DPS talent is still SotP.
Q: Should I spec Conviction or SotP if I do want DPS/TPS?
A: SoTP. Both are poor value (less than 1% DPS per talent point), but Psiven, myself and several other theory-crafters all worked out that SotP is better than Conviction.
Q: Imp Devotion or Imp HoJ?
A: Devotion. 30 second interrupt still sucks for raiding. Armour is Armour. Healing is a bonus for 5/10 mans with no tree.
Q: Do I spec Judgement of the Just?
A: Always, without exception.
Yes, it works on bosses. -10% melee damage per talent point = strongest mitigation talent in the tree. Also cheapest option of all four tanking classes to get -20% up.
Q: Why does everyone spec AD? It sux!
A: You're entitled to your opinion, but it's wrong. AD is bad according to certain sorts of simplistic theory-craft (which people think is gospel). In practice, in raids, in real content (instead of on your pocket calculator) AD is very good. Not ZOMGAwesome, but better than anything else you could spend the points on to get to 51. Install Tankadin2 and watch "Deaths Avoided" tick over.
A: Here's a data point: We one-shot Sapph on the progression kill, with me badly undergeared and tanking it. AD saved my ass four times, and mitigated over 2% of damage taken. No AD, no kill. My record is 5+ death saves and over 5% mitigated for a (barely achieved) kill. AD prevents wipes on hard content.Winchester (emphasis by Knaughty) wrote:(AD is a) highly disputed talent, people argue that the 1-2% damage it mitigates just isn’t good enough, what they fail to realize is that it mitigates the 1-2% of the damage that would kill you.
Q: Why do no tanking specs include 2/2 imp Judgement?
A: Breaks your rotation. Read Advanced FAQ for more info.
Q: What's my MT spec?
A: Core tanking talents That spec is impossible - you must put some talent points low in the tree to qualify for the upper level stuff.
Good Choices (In order)
• Kings (unless you have a 100% reliable ret pally) - read Kings section of the FAQ.
• Improved Devotion: Always gives bonus armour, nice healing bonus if your tree is missing amd/or dead.
• Divine Guardian: Gimmick only... but it's a powerful gimmick. Lore really likes it, for example. So do I.
• Improved HoJ: 30 sec CD on you Interrupt is still too slow to be useful, but the talent isn't crap.
Bad Choices (PvP talents)
• Stoicism
• Guardian's Favour
Q: You say DG is good, won't it kill me?
A: No. Safe to use, just don't /cancelaura bubble or lag can WTFPWN you.
Q: OK, I filled out prot, I'm 0/58/6 - now what? I have 7-8 talent points left over! Where do I put them?
A: Doesn't matter.
A: Good Holy talents: Maybe Seals of the Pure. Gives you threat/damage. Seals are bad in 3.0.3 - hope for a boost.
A: Good Prot talents: Kings / Improved Devotion / Divine Guardian. Improved HoJ is "OK" - I think DG is better
A: Good Ret telents: Heart of the Crusader is good, but doesn't stack with a ret pally. Pursuit of Justice if you were already 9pts into Ret to get HotC due to no Ret pally.
A: Bad Holy talents: Anything except Seals of the Pure.
A: Bad Ret talents: Benediction isn't much use. Neither is Imp Might. Conviction is still worse that SotP (except for Prot healing, which you won't do much).
Q: How are do you spec?
A: 5/60/6 That's my spec, but there are LOTS of perfectly valid level 80 specs. SotP / DG / Imp Devo / Kings are all "optional" under some circumstances. 5/60/6 has ended up as most popular tankadin spec by something like 4:1, it's a great place to start if you're unsure.
Kings: *sigh*
Majiben wrote:Here's the Rule of Thumb
Include Kings in all cookie cutter specs because it is too powerful of a buff to risk not having on yourself or your dps/healers. People can chose to remove it from their specs if they have a regular ret/holy paladin who buffs it but Don't ever plan on not taking it till you know with 100% certainty that 1-2 others are bringing it every raid.
Q: What first blessing do I want?
A: Kings Unless you outgear the content, then Sanctuary. You did spec Kings, right?
Q: I don't want to spec kings!
A: Then don't ask for advice. Lore, Psiven, Worldie, etc (me) all think Kings is better than Imp Hoj / Divine Guardian. You can skip kings at 80, if you have an utterly reliable Retribution paladin.
Q: So who does spec Kings?
A: At least one paladin in-raid, probably two.
A: At 80: Prot & Ret.
• Prot because we always give up the least to collect it. And there's not much else to get.
• Holy probably doesn't, because 51/0/18 is their basic healing spec and they only have 2 free points unless they drop crit talents. And Crit is AWESOME for Holy. So they end up 53/0/18 or 51/0/20. They can go 51/5/15 if you have no ret pally in-guild, but it's not great.
• Ret, because PvE ret is: 0/10/61 SotP is crap for ret.
Q: I think you're wrong about Kings! Don't WANNA!
A: That's not a question.
Q: *ahem* Can I ever skip Kings?
A: Yes, if you have a pocket Ret paladin.
• At 80, ret should always have Kings, so if you have an utterly reliable ret pally, or a pool of spares, you can skip it, and maybe pick up Imp Might instead. Ret puts Kings on entire raid, you do Sanc on tanks, Might on physical, Wisdom on casters (or Holy does)
Random Stuff:
Q: You don't explain anything, you just say "Do this"
A: Winchester's guide gives reasons. We disagree on some things. Such is life, work it out yourself
Or see my Advanced FAQ for more info.Q: So how easy was 70 @ 3.0 raid content?
A: At least one tier easier, maybe two Many people cleared an entire extra tier in the month available. I had a friend on a fresh server who guild from "Ding 70" to clearing BT in the month 3.0. was live. I know of many guilds that went from just barely killing Illidan to getting KJ once in that month.
Q: When dual spec goes in, can I switch to "kings-spec" bless the raid, then drop it?
A: No
Q: When is dual spec going in?
A: 3.1 =edit= Hopefully. It isn't ready yet, and the rest of 3.1 apparently is.
Q: When is 3.1 going in?
A: When it's ready
Soonish. It's pretty much ready, apparently - maybe January? 3.0 & Naxx are the "Live Beta" - expect a lot of tuning, once it's done, they'll put 3.1 on the PTR.
=edit= Looking more like Feb/March at this point, we're getting 3.0.8 in Jan instead.
Q: Warriors, Druids, and DKs can AoE tank now. Doesn't that make Paladins obsolete?
A: No Everyone can AE tank (though we're mostly best at it, DKs come close). Everyone can MT (including us). Pick a tank, any tank.
Q: So which tanking class is best?
A: Mu!
As at 3.0.3 tankadins have acknowledged weaknesses, main one is lack of single-target taunt. Bears were slightly OP last I checked. DKs are still a bit rough round the edges. Overall balance is much better than 2.0, and expected by the mindless optimists such as myself to continue to improve. Come 3.0.8 & Bear/DK re-tune, the tanking classes are 99% equivalent. For most of Tier-7 (easy) content, if you really had to pick a best tank, you'd probably pick us. We're a little OP at mitigating melee damage, and our TPS is very high due to JoL.
Q: I have a question about mana?
A: Shut up and tank more mobs. You don't need int or Mp5 anymore. If you still go OOM, bless Sanctuary. Extended info in my Advanced FAQ on how not to go OOM.
Q: What's my rotation?
A: @80 Your rotation kicks in at 75 when you get ShoR and use 96969. But feel free to try and practice 969_96 if you're levelling prot. Psiven's 969 guide
Q: I run out of mana when I consecrate!
A: Then don't Consecrate. You only need it if you're tanking big packs.
Q: Are you sure I don't need to worry about threat?
A: Yes. I ran 4-5k TPS in Naxx-10 three days after I dinged 80, using a quested blue weapon and mixed Sunwell/BoE tanking gear and zero BoP drops. Pure BoE/quest gear will get you above 3k TPS as a fresh 80.
Q: What's my fastest option for levelling?
A: PvE Ret. Spec PvP Ret on a PvP server.
Q: But I want to level as prot!?
A: Works fine. Especially after you get ShoR at 75. Spec Lore's Prot DPS.
Q: If I do spec ret, can I tank levelling instances?
A: Yes. Especially after you get ShoR at 75. Just wear your tanking gear. Maybe pick up a few tanking talents if your tanking gear is really crap, but there's great (and cheap) BoE blacksmith crafted tanking gear available from 75 & up. On a PvP server, PvP ret also makes a good ret-tanking spec.
Q: Can I do 10 and 25 in the same week?
A: Yes. Works the same as hero/normal 5-mans in TBC.
I want more info!
A: Start here: Winchester's guide - we don't agree on everything, but it's an excellent guide. And second opinions are good.
A: My Advanced FAQ for more detailed info.
A: Psiven's TPS sticky
A: Level 80 faction gear
A: Zamach's WoTLK Gear List
A: WTF do all these TLAs mean?(Glossary / Acronyms)
Please keep this thread on-topic.
It's a basic training FAQ for how to be a MT.