agility+stam gem or dodge+stam gem

Not sure which is better overall.
Does the Agility give armor/dodge/crit? If so how much dodge compared to a dodge gem.
while dodge just gives dodge.

I want to put this in the red sockets.

Thank you.

heavyarmz wrote:Not sure which is better overall.
Does the Agility give armor/dodge/crit? If so how much dodge compared to a dodge gem.
while dodge just gives dodge.

I want to put this in the red sockets.

Thank you.

8 agility, as compared to 8 dodge gives:

-0.08% dodge
+50ish armor
+a little bit of crit

Feel free to tweak my numbers. I can't find the thread that gave the exact armor and crit.

From EJ:
39.35 dodge rating = +1% chance to dodge.

52.08 agility = +1% dodge chance.
52.08 agility = +1% crit chance.
1 agility = 2 armor.

However, that's before Kings; assuming you have BoK, then it only takes 52.08 / 1.1 = 47.35 Agility to get 1% dodge.

Reversing that around:
8 dodge rating = 0.203% Dodge
8 Agility = 0.169% Dodge, 0.169% Crit, and 17.6 Armor

As they said on EJ, Agility is about 80% as effective as Dodge rating for pure dodge (83.25% to be exact). Since they're both hit identically by diminishing returns, that ratio shouldn't change, even though your actual return on each will.

I.E. at my current gear level, each 8 dodge gem is only giving me 0.14% dodge (if I'm remembering RatingBuster's tooltips correctly), and each 8 Agility gem is giving me 0.116-ish (which matches what RB said, again, if my memory is working right).

theckhd wrote:
Reversing that around:
8 dodge rating = 0.203% Dodge
8 Agility = 0.169% Dodge, 0.169% Crit, and 17.6 Armor

Wow, what the hell did I read? I swear it was posted as about 50 armor here on this board somewhere within the last few days.

Interesting, I'm starting to think agility is better due to kings, gaining more overall, I mainly want it my threat is so low in uld, I'm doing 3-4k now. I think my hit is low, not sure because I had hardly any hit in naxx, but was doing higher threat.

Same time, I need more avoidence I took out my stam gem stacking, due to I was taking way to much constant damage with only 22 dodge unbuffed. Now I'm at 26% dodge and 20% parry and 160 hit, unbuffed. I seem to take less constant damage now.The guild was complaining alot due to dk tanking rarely getting hit and almost avoiding everything and taking less damage overall.

Not sure what to do these days hope they give us some buffs to keep up with the dks.

Nikachelle wrote:Wow, what the hell did I read? I swear it was posted as about 50 armor here on this board somewhere within the last few days.

Maybe something about the +22 or +26 agility enchants? those should give about 48 and 57 armor respectively.

I've switched my recommendation in teh sticky to the agi/sta gem. Besides gaining benefit from kings, you get the armor - which actually helps you some in EH planning (as opposed to dodge rating which is 100% useless). You also get the crit which on average helps your LOLThreat and LOLDPS.

If you are building an avoidance gear set, of course pick the dodge rating.

theckhd wrote:As they said on EJ, Agility is about 80% as effective as Dodge rating for pure dodge (83.25% to be exact). Since they're both hit identically by diminishing returns, that ratio shouldn't change, even though your actual return on each will.

Could you clarify this statement?
Is agility hit identically by diminishing returns, or the dodge gained through agility?
How will your actual return vary? Could you give an example?

When i rejemmed one of my chest sockets from +8 dodge +12 stam to +8 agi +12 stam i lost only 0.03% dodge(From 26.64 down to 26.61 unbuffed). Buffing Kings should reduce that gap even more, but most importantly i got ~50 EH according to tankadin addon. Personally i'm going to stick with agi/stam from now on.

very incitefull... I just went with +26 agi on my titans guard and have been thinking of switching gems. this has helped me make that decision. thanks a lot

(i can't access the armory from work but im Nyrin on stormreaver)

Very informative thread, I've switcched from str food to agi food in Ulduar and may be doing some regemming. Some of the hits I take would be nice to see as miss or worry about the few BV str will give me, I'd rather mitagate more damage via armor and get more dodge w/the agi food. Thr extra crit is nice too.

40 str will give you 33 BV

Folstar wrote:

theckhd wrote:As they said on EJ, Agility is about 80% as effective as Dodge rating for pure dodge (83.25% to be exact). Since they're both hit identically by diminishing returns, that ratio shouldn't change, even though your actual return on each will.

Could you clarify this statement?
Is agility hit identically by diminishing returns, or the dodge gained through agility?
How will your actual return vary? Could you give an example?

The dodge obviously, there's no DR on crit or armour (well there is on the damage reduction you get per point of armour, but that's beside the point)

The return varies because as you gain more and more dodge, the dodge you lose from switching out dodge rating for agility becomes less and less. He actually gave an example in saying that 8 dodge rating should give 0.203% dodge pre-DR and 8 agility gives 0.169% at that point, for a difference of 0.034%, in his current gear set 8 dodge rating gives him 0.14% dodge and 8 agi gives him 0.116%, for a difference of only 0.024%.

So the higher your dodge already is, the more benificial is it to get agi instead of dodge rating, since armour and crit aren't on diminishing returns.

So is there a point of how much dodge rating you can have before you can start benefiting from gemming to Agi/Stam. I mean if the difference is 0.024 against more armor a bit less dodge and more crit. I might be all for this.

Personal preference. You're discussing dodge differences of a few hundredths of a percent, and that's before DR. Once your dodge gets into the high 20s I think it's a more clear-cut trade off.