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Tidewalkers murlocs (different question)

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Tidewalkers murlocs (different question)

Postby Jobah » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:41 am

So ive been reading about this fight for 2 weeks now, my guild has spent 2 weeks trying to kill this guy. We've tried a number of different strategies. here they are...

strat #1
Have me stand down near the watery graves so i am out of range and will not get graved. The problem im having with this is... the murlocs completely and entirely ignore my heals. They dont come for me, they go straight for someone else.

strat#2
Have me stand up with the ranged dps/healers. This was alot more succesful. I was able to pickup the murlocs without any problems at all. The only flaw to this strat is that if i get graved, its a wipe.

strat#3
Same as #2 except... we also had another holy pally turn his righteous fury on. He tried to do it in mostly pvp gear to get his resil up high so he was uncrittable. This method was alright, we didnt get many valid attempts with this strat because the first time the healing pally wasnt aware how much dmg he was gonna take and he neglected to toss enough heals on himself. We also had a lot of people DCing, so these attempts could have just been flukes.


My question is with strategy #1. Thats the ideal strategy, but why the hell are my heals picking up agro when im standing with the group, but not when im standing down near the graves? Im healing a lock nonstop whos lifetapping, it just doesnt make any sense.
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Postby ulushnar » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:48 am

He's tanked at the tunnel to Karathress' room.

Pallytank and lifetaplock stand at the bottom of the ramp slightly round the corner, which puts you out of his LoS.
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Postby Jobah » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:58 am

Hmmm, so the warlock must be down below with me? Im watching a few different videos now and they have the tankadins healer/lifetaplock both standing below.
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Postby Warrender » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:01 am

I'm assuming you have enough +spelldamage or +healing. What usually grabs their attention while you're doing your Holy Lights on the lock?
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Postby Jobah » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:04 am

im just shy of 600 spell damage. my +healing is around 450ish. I have some healing gear i could always replace some of my tank gear with if you think thats part of the problem.

as for what the murlocs are targeting... We've only been able to attempt it twice becuase it doesnt work and no one wants to waste any other time on it. The first time they went straight for the main tank (we're assuming cuz of earthshield) the 2nd time they went for the range dps (we're assuming a HoT triggered them).
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Postby ulushnar » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:05 am

I di'nt watch me no vidjos, I learned by doing.

*ahem* The lock stays down the ramp with me, popping up now and again to DoT the feck out of things. We normally use the SL/SL-specced lock from the Leo kill since he can't do optimal DPS with that spec anyway.

All our healers stand mid-way up the ramp, where they have clear LOS to both the tank and me.
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Postby Jobah » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:07 am

Yeah well, people get frustrated on this boss in my guild because we havent even gotten past 70% yet. Ill try it with the lock standing down the ramp with me and post back here if i have any other probs.
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Postby Warrender » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:08 am

Jobah wrote:as for what the murlocs are targeting... We've only been able to attempt it twice becuase it doesnt work and no one wants to waste any other time on it. The first time they went straight for the main tank (we're assuming cuz of earthshield) the 2nd time they went for the range dps (we're assuming a HoT triggered them).


You have plenty of +spell damage and don't even need to pile on additional +healing.

You just answered your questions on what you need to do. Have Shamans move the Earth Shield from the MT to you and tell the healers/DPS to chill out while you try and get the Murlocs' attention.
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Postby Jobah » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:12 am

Eh, i wasnt having any problems agroing the murlocs when i was standing up top the ramp within range of the graves. I was casting my flash heals on the MT and laying down consecrate. I had NO PROBLEMS at all when i was up top, but then when i try to stand down below, they ignore me.

granted, i was healing different targets (switch from the tank to the warlock) when i was below versus up top.
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Postby Warrender » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:18 am

Jobah wrote:Eh, i wasnt having any problems agroing the murlocs when i was standing up top the ramp within range of the graves. I was casting my flash heals on the MT and laying down consecrate. I had NO PROBLEMS at all when i was up top, but then when i try to stand down below, they ignore me.


With your +spelldamage and with a buffed (Fel Armor/Blessing of Light/Amplify Magic)Warlock that taps down enough for at least 2 full Holy Lights, the Murlocs will be glued to you after the second Holy Light if you start casting as soon as the boss mod announces Murlocs.
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Postby Jobah » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:20 am

alright well, we're going back in to either TK or ssc 2nite (alar or tidewalker), so ill try and push for tidewalker with these new ideas. If i dont post back, it means the feedback works, and i appreciate the help. If we fail, ill be back :D. Thanks alot for the help.
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Postby jere » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:29 am

1. Make sure everyone (hunters included) but the MT and yourself have BoSalv on.

2. Make sure your warlock has BoL, Amp. Magic, and Fel Armor up

3. During the murlocs, no one is allowed to Thunderclap, demoshout, chain heal, Circle of Heal, Prayer of healing, tranquility, or even bandage until they are in your consecration. Basically no AoE damage or AoE healing should be happening until both groups of murlocs are in your consecrate.

4. If you still have problems, make sure priests don't use PoM.

5. Keep earthshield on you and not the MT of tidewalker.




If the MT got them, it could be because of many reasons:

1. Some combo of a lifebloom bloom, PoM, Health Pot got their attention and then Earthshield sealed it (kept them on it)

2. He thunderclapped or demoshouted while they ran by.

3. Something else that is similar in nature.




I would suggest you pick up an addon called Expiration (or Recount will work, but expiration is smaller). You may have to add in some filters, but it will tell you the last 20 (or more) events associated with a person before they died. You can see if they cast chain heal or had a PoM go off, etc. You will want to filter out things like renew/rejuv ticks and vampiric embrace/touch most likely.

Save your combat logs and use WWS. You can use that to see what things people are using in the fight (like did the MT get an earthshield or did a priest cast PoM, etc.)

You should be able to toss 3 Holy Lights up before the first murloc pat gets to you and each should be hitting for 3500-4000 with that warlock setup if you have decent spell dmg. You should be able to outheal most of the healing aggro.




EDIT: here is a (boring) video of the process:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi9s_z9pNTk

Watery Globules happen at around 7:30ish
Last edited by jere on Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby ulushnar » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:06 am

How Jere describes is pretty much how we do it. Don't use FoL, use Holy Light, max rank 3-4 times. I tank the Murlocs with 3-400 damage/healing 3 HLs is enough to get their attention unless the healers are playing stupid bastards.
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Postby Invisusira » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:12 am

I just takes practice. We tried the "OT standing in the DPS" strat for a while, but as soon as we switched to the OT standing by the WGs, it worked SO much better. Just be sure that when the "murlocs summoned" (not "murlocs soon") warning pops up:
A) You're spamming Holy Light, not Flash of Light,
B) the non-pally healers chill,
C) the DPS doesn't do ANY sort of debuffy/aoe'y stuff.

And if the MT gets it, it's their own fault. (I am guilty of this btw, mis-timed consecrates FTL)
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Postby Enesch » Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:29 am

Our guild also spent a night trying the "OT standing in DPS" tactic for a night...both with just me and then with a RF'ed holy pally also consecrating. The best we could do was get Moro down to 67%.

The next day I posted the video Jere linked on our guild forums, and last night we took him down using that strategy. It was damn near impossible to convince the healers to not raid-heal after an earthquake, but once we convinced them that this will work if they just relax until the AoE is called, everything will be fine.

Basically from the moment Earthquake hits until you call for AoE on the murlocs, there is:

-no raid healing by the healers, just enough on the MT to keep him alive...no one should even bandage. No Earthshield on the tank.
-no cleaves, thunderclaps, etc from the melee.

As soon as earthquake hits, I start my Holy Lights on the 'lock, even though I can't even see the murlocs yet, and can get off three heals just as the murlocs get to me, and I can consecrate and holy shield as they start hitting me. My assigned healers keep me alive and at the second tick of my second consecrate, I call for AoE. ONLY then should the healers top off everyone else in the raid.

A few rotations of this, a relocation to the hallway to avoid the globs, and that's all there is to it. Once everyone is on the same page and knows when they can and can't do things, its a pretty straightfoward fight.

So thanks for posting that boring, but PERFECT video. :)
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