Improved Judgement

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Improved Judgement

Postby Voldiir » Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:54 am

Do we really need two points in this? I mean... personally, HS starts out my rotation (so I'm guarenteed to always have it up), followed by judge, reseal, conc, wait out cooldowns (i'll use exorsism here if it's up and usable, or use this time to change seals if I want to put a different judgement down), repeat.

I like having the points in Imp Judgement just so I'm guarenteed to not get behind IN that rotation, but do I really need two seconds?

I can't help but think that that single point could be better spent elsewhere... Even one point in Guardians favor would be more useful (DS and BoP would both be 4-min for me, then).

I don't know. I've never really been a fan of cookie cutter specs (our 0/49/12 just seems to be the best option, regardless) so I'm always trying to see what I can do to change them. I guess I'll test it sometime and see if that one second ever puts me behind in a "spam your rotation" kinda fight. Prince would be an excellent test.

But I wanted to know what you guys thought, at least.
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Postby Duseld » Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:36 am

Absolutely

Unless your DPS is sub par or exceptionally good at managing aggro (your probably gimping they're full potential) Its great to have going.

Personally
Righteous up (before fight)
Holy Shield (before fight)
Avengers (To pull)

Consecrate
Holy Shield
Avengers
Judge

Which leaves enough time between the next judge to melee for 8 seconds to gain mana and threat.
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Postby Rhaenys » Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:58 am

Yes we need it. It helps increase threat. The faster you can judge, the more threat you produce.
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Postby Lore » Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:04 am

Bubblegirl wrote:Yes we need it. It helps increase threat. The faster you can judge, the more threat you produce.


Well, using abilities faster doesn't always mean more damage being dealt, if the rotation happens to come around so that you're on global cooldown when you go to hit it again.

Since Judgement isn't on global cooldown, though, I'd say there's no wasted points in it.
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Postby Alixander » Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:05 am

We don't need it. Is it quite helpful? Definitely so, but I am able to effectively hold hate without it, inside Karazhan. All it does is expedite the threat generation process, an area we already are almost always the leaders in. IMO, the points would be better spent in an area that would increase one of our weakpoints, like incoming damage...
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Postby Kvaern » Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:22 am

Alixander wrote:We don't need it. Is it quite helpful? Definitely so, but I am able to effectively hold hate without it, inside Karazhan. All it does is expedite the threat generation process, an area we already are almost always the leaders in. IMO, the points would be better spent in an area that would increase one of our weakpoints, like incoming damage...


Keep in mind though, we have another weak point where imp. judgements is a major boost.

That being when you need to keep up a useful TPS output when you aren't the one currently being targeted in a tank rotation.

Apart from that IJ is one of the single best 5 man tanking talents we got imo.
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Postby Baelor » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:36 am

I get by without it. Just gotta be more careful with your gear selection, make sure you've got some spell damage so that you make every Judgment count.
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Postby Prepared » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:38 am

Live it, love it, can't function without it!
"Judgement day's not coming soon enough."


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Postby Maulininis » Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:47 pm

Yeah, I recently respecced away from it. And the difference was so noticeable, and nothing less than a thorn in the side.
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Postby Lore » Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:50 pm

Alixander wrote:We don't need it. Is it quite helpful? Definitely so, but I am able to effectively hold hate without it, inside Karazhan. All it does is expedite the threat generation process, an area we already are almost always the leaders in. IMO, the points would be better spent in an area that would increase one of our weakpoints, like incoming damage...


Exorcism inflates the threat advantage quite a bit, I'm not sure I could hold aggro as well without imp judgement.

And hey, eventually when we can get to that block value libram in black temple, imp judgement will mean more mitigation too :P
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Postby Baelor » Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:49 pm

Not that this is huge headline news, but I just ran a Black Morass with my 2 fairly well-geared guildies, an aggro-tastic fire mage and a threat-magnet elemental shaman in 4/5 tier 4, and when I got my shield on a mob first, I didn't lose them. Bosses I was leagues ahead in threat starting with an Avenging Wrath. This is all without Improved Judgment, and about 400 spell damage.

My threat would be a little lower in raids with a different gear set equipped, but I'd have more buffs... regardless, not necessary, but certainly helpful.
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Postby Voldiir » Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:31 am

the faster you can judge, the more threat you produce.


I don't think you quite got my question so I'll clarify.... See... I judge after Holy Shield. Meaning I only judge every ~10 seconds anyways. I've specced without it before, and I much prefer to have it. However, I find that the only purpose Imp Judgement serves me is a means to NOT fall behind in my 10 second rotation. Without Imp Judgement, I find that my judgement rotation will lag a little, and eventually I'll have to reset it by NOT judging once. Hence I WANT Imp Judgement.

The question is... do I need to have BOTH points in it to do that or could I get way with just one? With our talents being spred so thin, I'm quite sure I could find another place for that one point.

As I said, I'll test this for myself at some point in time just to make sure that the loss of one second of buffer time doesn't effect my rotation. But I wanted to get your feelings on the timing.

IJ is one of the single best 5 man tanking talents we got


I don't really tank 5-mans anymore... Even Heroics are a waste of my time... To be honest... I'm starting to "outgear" Kara... So everything I'm interested in effects raid-tanking, boss-tanking (MT. I don't OT. That's what warriors are for), and pure TPS throughout the duration of a fight. I rarely have to deal with "snap aggro." I have a pretty set rotation that works for me and I'm just trying to perfect my build (yes even to the one-point denominator) around that, and my gear.
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Postby DJSticky » Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:01 am

I've recently specced out of IJ to do some testing of 2.5 Reck, 5/5 WE and 3/3 Imp SoTC. Overall I am pleased with my results. I kind of miss IJ on trash but not at all on bosses.

Like the previous poster my spec is aimed at MTing raid bosses. Here is my thinking on it.

My rotation is HS, Judge, Reseal. I don't like to judge before the HS because w/ 8 sec judgment it's offcooldown right before HS runs out and is off CD. So it sits there waiting untill I HS. If I were to judge before HS I'd have to wait to reseal untill I HS leading to a swing w/o a seal.

That being said I'm contemplating dropping Reck all togather especialy once I get my T4 2piece set bonus. Getting the S2 Glad Mace will seal the deal.

**Edit**
If your curious as to my low ass dodge I guess I logged with my trash tanking trinks Hidden Fleet + Darkmoon, I wear the Pocketwatch for bosses =)
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Postby Lore » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:14 am

Judgement is not on global cooldown, so like I said before... you don't have to wait at all. It's just the reseal that you might have to wait for, and that's not super important.
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Postby Fridmarr » Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:16 am

Lore wrote:Judgement is not on global cooldown, so like I said before... you don't have to wait at all. It's just the reseal that you might have to wait for, and that's not super important.


QFT! Not getting imp judgements because of timer interference shouldn't really be a concern.
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