Remove Advertisements

A little advice

Attumen, Moroes, Maiden, Opera, Curator, Illhoof, Aran, Netherspite, Chess, Prince, Nightbane

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

A little advice

Postby Uthadanin » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:15 am

My toon is a pally and I don't know a ton about dps.

What kind of requirements would you guys suggest for starting kara for

Mage
Lock
S-priest
druid tree's
dps shammy

I know tank gearing requirements and pally healing gearing. I'm just trying to make sure I'm not pushing my guild into the deep end too early.

Would a safe assumption be that all caster dps/healers should have 7500 health unbuffed, 700 spell damage, 1500 ap or 1100 +heal unbuffed etc? My melee dps all have over 10k health unbuffed save for one hunter who's at 8400.
Image
Image
User avatar
Uthadanin
 
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:01 am
Location: Colonie, NY

Postby ulushnar » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:08 am

If a caster can't hit 800 spelldamage or a healer 1.4k healing before they start Kara then they're woefully undergeared.
Be careful when you argue with trolls, lest you become one.
User avatar
ulushnar
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5442
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 6:56 am
Location: Bollocks, Scotland

Postby Uthadanin » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:16 am

Ulushnar wrote:If a caster can't hit 800 spelldamage or a healer 1.4k healing before they start Kara then they're woefully undergeared.


I'll take that into consideration. 1.4k is for druid/priests/resto shammy? I don't meet a ton of holy pally's with that kind of healing in this gearing bracket.

just a note. When i started healing kara I didn't even have +950 healing, heck I still only have +1139 (note that # is prot spec'd don't know the holy number off of the top of my head) unbuffed healing and consistently am #1 healer.
Image
Image
User avatar
Uthadanin
 
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:01 am
Location: Colonie, NY

Postby Vagrant » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:19 am

Lies, 500 sd and 1000 healing is enough to start.
Your melees are in S1 and Vindicator's which is ok.
Your tailor casters will have sort of low hp.
Didn't mention your hunter's AP, but he's probably gearing correctly, for PvE.
User avatar
Vagrant
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:30 pm

Postby Uthadanin » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:31 am

Vagrant wrote:Lies, 500 sd and 1000 healing is enough to start.
Your melees are in S1 and Vindicator's which is ok.
Your tailor casters will have sort of low hp.
Didn't mention your hunter's AP, but he's probably gearing correctly, for PvE.


Didn't mention b/c i'm at work and cant check it and have no rough idea of where it's at.

My fury/arms warrior, rogue, feral druid (my offtank), and mage are all gearing in s1/s2/bg gearing. My s2/bg gearing is going in my healing set.
Image
Image
User avatar
Uthadanin
 
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:01 am
Location: Colonie, NY

Postby Tyaera » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:02 pm

Uthadanin wrote:
Vagrant wrote:Lies, 500 sd and 1000 healing is enough to start.
Your melees are in S1 and Vindicator's which is ok.
Your tailor casters will have sort of low hp.
Didn't mention your hunter's AP, but he's probably gearing correctly, for PvE.


Didn't mention b/c i'm at work and cant check it and have no rough idea of where it's at.

My fury/arms warrior, rogue, feral druid (my offtank), and mage are all gearing in s1/s2/bg gearing. My s2/bg gearing is going in my healing set.


PvP gear for mages is terrible.

If they try to wear any more than 1-2 pieces of s1-s2 gear (the spellblade is the only exception) smack them in the face.

PvP gear does not have enough spell +hit for raiding. The Gladiator's Spellblade or the Merciless Gladiator's Spellblade are great items. And if you have a particularly crap blue in one slot, its better to replace it with a PvP piece.

But being in full PvP gear is just asking to see Resist Resist Resist Resist.
better to tank in hell than DPS in heaven
Image
User avatar
Tyaera
 
Posts: 730
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:48 pm
Location: sneaking through minefields

Postby Uthadanin » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:17 am

I said that kind of wrong. We have access to most s1/s2/s3 bg gearing. (minus the gearing that requires a personal rating. My mage for example should have her honor for her weapon in the morning, and arena points for a piece of s3 tuesday.

My lock does not pvp, but he has been around long enough to have a healthy bit of pre-kara gearing.

My rogue has enough gear to tank sethekk halls (4 manned with an offspec healer being me) and in the same night rock #1 or #2 on the meters in kara.

I understand that pvp gearing isn't always (and in most cases is not) the best, as its the direction of most on my server (to get full wellfare epics and be happy) its a major part of most guilds. I'm not at liberty to have a gearing guide for a frost mage at my disposal, no less do I know the ideal pre-kara gearing for a resto-druid.
Image
Image
User avatar
Uthadanin
 
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:01 am
Location: Colonie, NY

Postby Pizbit » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:50 am

Vagrant wrote:Lies, 500 sd and 1000 healing is enough to start.
Your melees are in S1 and Vindicator's which is ok.
Your tailor casters will have sort of low hp.
Didn't mention your hunter's AP, but he's probably gearing correctly, for PvE.


QFT as long as people aren't in excessive amounts of PvP gear(aka they have good +hit. My hunter has a goodly number of pvp items but is near hit capped)

//ed//
I'll just toss this in, anyone who has made a good effort to be ready to raid, will be good to start. Anyone who expects a free ride and hasn't been making a good effort = gkick/never invite as they'll only drag you down.
I have ADHD and OCD...I keep forgetting to wash my hands.
Pizbit
 
Posts: 2184
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:37 am

Postby Uthadanin » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:58 am

Pizbit wrote:
Vagrant wrote:Lies, 500 sd and 1000 healing is enough to start.
Your melees are in S1 and Vindicator's which is ok.
Your tailor casters will have sort of low hp.
Didn't mention your hunter's AP, but he's probably gearing correctly, for PvE.


QFT as long as people aren't in excessive amounts of PvP gear(aka they have good +hit. My hunter has a goodly number of pvp items but is near hit capped)

//ed//
I'll just toss this in, anyone who has made a good effort to be ready to raid, will be good to start. Anyone who expects a free ride and hasn't been making a good effort = gkick/never invite as they'll only drag you down.


So dps should be at or near + hit (or spell hit) cap for kara?

I know that arena/bg gear is not designed for raiding, I just thought it was ok gear for dps'ers... I'm learning something today.
Image
Image
User avatar
Uthadanin
 
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:01 am
Location: Colonie, NY

Postby Pizbit » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:15 am

Nah, don't need to be hit capped for starting kara(especially not for rogues due to the high amount they need).

How much +hit is needed varies per class/spec, but 5% is minimum I'd go for to start. +10% for later on(again varies on class/spec)
They should have made a good effort to get some +hit, anything below +5% FROM GEAR = fail.
The exception to that is elemental shamans, they can get so much +hit from talents they don't need to be overly worried about +hit on gear.

Having +hit also shows they usually have a clue how to gear and spec.
I have ADHD and OCD...I keep forgetting to wash my hands.
Pizbit
 
Posts: 2184
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:37 am

Postby sweeney » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:48 am

I think the guidelines in the OP are pretty good for Curator+. The earlier fights are as much about proper execution and learning to work as a 10-man raid as they are about gear, and the only way you learn that stuff is by diving in.

Worst case is, you do lower Kara for a few resets. Things like the cloth gloves from Attumen socketed for +spell hit do wonders for gearing up caster DPS to a reasonable amount of hit.

I honestly think that a motivated group with a reasonable class balance is ready to start Kara if they all pulled their weight on the attunement instance runs.

I'm more comfortable with setting a gear/stats floor for people switching in alts for an established team. But if you're all learning the fights, I'd have no problem with people knowing what stats they want, but not having gotten there yet.
Sweeney: 80 Paladin, Runetotem
sweeney
 
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:15 pm

Postby grymwulf » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:46 am

Basically to start out with here is what I recommend:

Mellee DPS:
71dps weapons (minimum)
7500+ hp (buffed)
5% hit rating

Caster DPS:
600 +dmg
7200+ hp (buffed) - Bare minimum for Shade
5% hit rating

Healers (Druid/Sham/Priest)
1000 +healing
7200+ hp (buffed) - Bare minimum for Shade
9000+ mana
200 mp/5

Healer (Pally)
800 +healing
15% base holy crit (w/o talents)
9000+ mana
7200+ hp - Bare minimum for Curator

Starting groups should include (at minimum):
1 Priest (shackles)
2 Fast Interuptors (Rogue/War/Sham)
1 Tank (Uncrittable)
1 Offtank
2 Healers
1 Warlock (Soaker) - stand on Moroes to get the stuns, 2nd highest aggro for Hatefull bolts from Curator

It's best to start out with Attuman -> Moroes -> Maiden -> Opera

Don't get caught up with the idea of using CC for boss fights. It's always better to kill Moroes's adds as you have a high chance of at least 1 add that can dispell shackles.
Image
Image
User avatar
grymwulf
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:02 am

Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:56 am

Remember that spell miss chance on bosses is much higher than physical hit chances, it's 17%, 16% of which can be overcome. Most casters have from 4 to 10% hit from talents, too. Warlocks have nothing, and non-arcane magi have like 3% from talents, so you'll want a bit more than that.


given it's easy to attain max spell hit without *any* piece of raid gear or +hit talents, and still sustain a good amount of spell damage(800+), casters should always aim for 10%+ final spell hit. Not having it capped by Aran~ is plain silly and shouldn't happen much, if at all.
Image
I am not allowed to seduce the abyssal's lunar mate.
User avatar
Snake-Aes
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 15538
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:15 am
Location: Thorns

Postby Refute » Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:00 am

I agree with the poster before me. Everything up to Curator really is not hard and is mainly more of an "idiot check" than anything. If you meet the basic requirements already stated you'll be fine... seriously.

Curator, however, is a bit of a gear check. You need to have proper DPS to get him down before your healers run out of mana. Some old guides may suggest you use resist gear on curator, but don't do it - it's all out DPS on him and make sure you take advantage of his evocates (use deadly boss mods to announce this). Also, have your warlock put up Curse of Doom at 55secs~ before evocate for nice 25k~ boom booms.

The only problem I may see is if you get to Curator TOO quickly, meaning that some undergeared people won't have a few go-rounds to get loot from the earlier bosses. If this is the case, you'll find out the hard way. If you have the proper gear/skill, you'll burn through Curator and continue on.

Basically, the point of this is that Kara has a few "check points" in it but for the first several bosses, don't sweat it, just go in, have fun, and kick butt. :)
Refute
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:30 pm

Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:23 am

A bit off topic but, if you have the time to spare, try to learn the general mechanics of caster dps, melee dps, hunter dps, each kind of healer and each kind of tank. That alone makes a huge difference, and whatever else you need to know, you just have to play me.

"What do you have to handle with this?"
"I could do that or that"
"Kay, eat him with that."
Image
I am not allowed to seduce the abyssal's lunar mate.
User avatar
Snake-Aes
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 15538
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:15 am
Location: Thorns

Next

Return to Karazhan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron

Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there are 0 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 0 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests