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Tanking Tidewalker

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Tanking Tidewalker

Postby Elryk » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:54 pm

Hi All,

Ok so with our MT away for tomorrow, I've been asked by GM to MT Tidewalker. Since we've ever only attempted him once before and got him down to like 30%. I was not there for the attempt so I have no idea what to expect. I was told we make good murloc fodder but I won't be doing that role for this next attempt.

Anyone know of a pally successfully tanking him? I heard he hits harder than Magtheridon. Would appreciate some insight what gear you used? If there has been none would appreciate input from the others here.

As an FYI I've successfully MT'ed (when required) all of Kara, HK/Gruul, Kazzak, Maggy and VR (position 1).

Gearwise I am currently using:-
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/chara ... ht&n=Elryk

I also have the following items in inventory:-

- Sun Eater with Mongoose http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29362
- Girdle of the Inmoveable with 2 x 12 STA gems http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27672
- Moroes Lucky Pocket Watch http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28528
- Figurine of the Colossus http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27529
- Crystalforge Sword with 40 SD on it http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32660
- Blade of Archmage with 40 SD on it http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29153
- Faceguard of Determination http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32083
- And a mix of rings / neck items like Andormu's Tear etc

I'm thinking about the following 13.6k unbuffed, 22% dodge, 16.5% parry and 20% Block and about 270 spell dmg (replace eye with pocket watch, replace mace with crystalforge sword with an Oil).

Or just go all out on avoidance/mitigation (12.5K, 26% dodge, 17% parry, 24% block and about 52% avoidance) ??

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

- Elryk
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Postby PsiVen » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:23 pm

Yeah, he hits very hard. I'd say definitely as much stamina as you can, with a Pocketwatch and Crystalforged Sword. You won't be subject to the threat of an eq->crush like a warrior due to HS charges so you shouldn't have trouble staying up. Just make sure you don't consecrate after earthquakes ;)

Threat will probably be fine with your +dmg weapon, because the ranged dps will be distracted by murlocs and you won't suffer from Tidal Waves as much as warriors and druids.

I haven't tanked him myself, but... that's what I would do :)
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Postby Lore » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:48 am

Oddly enough, Morogrim himself favors a Paladin tank. It's not that he hits HARD, per se (hits generally in the 3-4k area OTOH), but he hits ridiculously fast and burns through a Warrior's Shield Block very quickly.
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Postby Trevize » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:05 am

Yeah our warrior main tank said he kept getting crushed because his shield charges were getting eaten up. So in order to fix that problem....they scheduled a druid to tank it because I was to valuable on adds.

But yeah....I would say the main thing is make sure you keep holy shield up in your rotation. And on the earthquake, you can start casting even if your body is "on the ground" so even then you can get holy shield up.
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Postby Thels » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:13 am

Lore wrote:Oddly enough, Morogrim himself favors a Paladin tank. It's not that he hits HARD, per se (hits generally in the 3-4k area OTOH), but he hits ridiculously fast and burns through a Warrior's Shield Block very quickly.


Seriously? I haven't even looked at Morogrim himself, since we're too viable for tanking the adds.

Yet another poor design. Couldn't they have put the fast attacking boss seperate from the lots of trash to tank? So we'd be viable in 2 encounters as opposed to 1.
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Postby PsiVen » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:16 am

My understanding is that it's not that he attacks fast, but that Earthquake eats a shield block charge and he sometimes decides to attack faster than normal (which is really bad because he hits like a truck). I remember most of our early wipes were trying to keep the MT alive while a healer or two short from murlocs eating them.
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Postby Lore » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:35 am

I haven't tanked him personally, so we may have a blind leading the blind scenario here, but when we were first starting him our MT told me that he wasn't hitting hard, just fast, so he was eating crushes.

Either way, our Warriors take tons of crushing blows on that fight, and were I not tied up with Murlocs I'd give it a go myself.
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Postby Thels » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:17 am

Yeah, that Earthquake is silly. I parried it quite often... Parrying an Earthquake :roll:
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Postby Elryk » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:50 am

Ok a few tests with different sets and what worked best was me using sta/avoidance gear with about 250 or so SD.

Was doing quite well until my ISP decided to crap itself for the night, and with him at 29% on the 4th attempt meh (guessing we do it again tomorrow). I have no doubt he would have died if I managed to stay on /shrug.

He does hit hard (whoever said he didnt should try tanking him and see what I am talking about) but thats not the concern. I am sure he varies his attack speed (nfi why) because he can get a few hits in that are really really quick. It certainly eats up HS charges but not to the extent that the warriors get with their block, but you basically have to keep HS up 100% of time (I was mashing it every CD it was up) or you will get crushing hits.

Just basically tank and spank and hope your healers can keep you up. He hits for about 5k normal, 8 - 9K crushing (a few got through on the early attempts due to me testing)

PS. Don't even bother trying to tank him unless you can somehow break 13K unbuffed, maintain uncrushable and have decent avoidance (I had 26% dodge unbuffed and was lucky enough to actually dodge some of his hits).
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Postby Lore » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:11 am

Suppose I should clarify what I mean by a "hard" hit

5k is not hard :P
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Postby PsiVen » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:13 pm

Variability of attack speed (from parry and what have you) is the problem, and 9k is pretty hard :)
To quote Gurgthock from the EJ forums:

I hate Morogrim. Here's a fun 1.7 seconds from last night:

5/29 21:58:16.937 Cove's Holy Light critically heals Paches for 6985.
5/29 21:58:17.687 Neux's Holy Light heals Paches for 4740.
5/29 21:58:18.171 Krane's Holy Light heals Paches for 4982.
5/29 21:58:18.812 Morogrim Tidewalker hits Paches for 5871. (457 blocked)
5/29 21:58:19.390 Morogrim Tidewalker's Earthquake hits Paches for 3272. (457 blocked)
5/29 21:58:19.671 Paches's Revenge was parried by Morogrim Tidewalker.
5/29 21:58:19.687 Paches gains Shield Block.
5/29 21:58:20.046 Morogrim Tidewalker hits Paches for 4704. (457 blocked)
5/29 21:58:20.578 Morogrim Tidewalker hits Paches for 9328. (crushing)

I can only assume that the combat log order is wrong, and the Shield Block actually went off before the Quake and thus had a charge eaten.


In this exact situation assuming he was a paladin under 35% health, that last hit would have been 3896 (457 blocked) shaving off 5431 damage. You'd need 18k health to survive that, but the warrior would have needed over 23k (so basically, Last Stand).

Also, warriors use an awful lot more instant attacks than we do so the odds of a parry + earthquake are much lower.
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Postby Elryk » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:09 pm

Lore wrote:Suppose I should clarify what I mean by a "hard" hit

5k is not hard :P


Nope, 5K aint hard .. fairly standard hits expected from a boss level mob. However, stack them up with the speed of his hits coming in thick and fast, and compared to someone like Maggy or HK then you'll realise what my view of hard is.
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Postby Elirra » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:35 am

Its not too hard to do. A couple weeks ago we had 2 prot pallies for our off night raid and I got to tank Tidewalker. Holy Shield is definately top priority, if you let a crushing sneak in because of lag you're basicly ruining a paladin's advantage in tanking him. I think I was around 25% dodge, and probably a little under 19k health.

Our strat involved tanking him in the mouth of the tunnel to FLK's room. And because of my concern with consecrating murlocs I had one complaint about my threat, and that was from our ret paladin.

I would say if your guild likes tanking him in that tunnel, and you're using to protadins, then set it up with the murlock tank and the rest of the raid that you'll be tanking with Tidewalker offset left or right in that tunnel and the rest of the raid should offset opposite you. That should free you up to consecrate whenever you want.

My other big suggestion is to get as much hit rating as you possibly can. The only time I thought I was going to die was after a parry.
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Postby Stylaan » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:33 am

Morogrim attacks at inconsistent speeds >_>

In most of my WWS logs with Tclap up I'm clocking him at between 1.60-1.80 speed with no parries, with occasionally faster attacks for seemingly no reason.

Plus there's EQ and Tidal Wave which generate burst.

Just make sure not to get any murlocs on yourself, part of that will be healers watching the timing of ES/PoM, part of it will be not consecrating at the wrong time.

tbh, a warrior OT would really help you a lot, Demo/Tclap is a huge factor when considering his very high (for the SSC level) DPS output. He hits our usual MT for around 3.5-4k with Demo up, around 4.5-5k with it down.
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Postby gwayne » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:56 am

Elirra wrote:My other big suggestion is to get as much hit rating as you possibly can. The only time I thought I was going to die was after a parry.


Correct me if I'm wrong but:

Hit rating reduces change to miss attacks
Expertise reduces chance for attacks to be parried/dodged

All the hit rating in the world and you'll still get just as many parries as far as I know.
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