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Help with Kael'thelas

A'lar, Void Reaver, Solarian, Kael'thas

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Postby Hiroko » Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:20 am

We had our first proper look at Kael'Thas last night for half an hour so was mainly looking at tanking/healing assignments and positioning.

Raid leader insisted we needed 4 tanks and replaced a dps with a druid tank for the attempts.

Can't see why 4 would be needed for phase 3 (warlock on copernian) so it must be his plan for phase 2 - the weapons.

We had:
Druid on the mace - focussed down first
Warrior (MT) - dagger and staff
Druid - axe
Paladin (me) - sword and shield
Hunters - bow

We just lost a warrior MT, so that's our entire tanking team at the moment until we recruit another warrior tank, which means unless all 4 turn up, we get no tries on Kael'Thas.

Do you guys use 4 tanks on the weapons? can you do it with less by moving around the allocations a bit?
At one stage I was tanking sword, shield and dagger at the same time and it didn't seem exxcessive.
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Postby Enkal » Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:31 am

We use 3 tanks for Kael. I'm normally assigned to sword+daggers but I cant really avoid aggroing shield so the druid assigned to shield+mace just let me have it. ;)

Imho tanking mace+sword+daggers+shield wouldnt be too hard as long as you keep an eye out for the dot stack from the sword and stun it if the stack go above 4-5. It depends on your gear of course. 8)
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Postby Hiroko » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:41 am

So I'm guessings your assignments would look something like:

bow - hunters
mace & shield - druid
sword & dagger - you
axe - warrior?
staff - ?

Raid leader is ret pally and promotes paladin tanking. Tanks work as a team to beat encounters and we have no superiority complexes going on, so I'm just looking for ideas on what's actually viable and the best way to handle the weapons with what we have - warrior, paladin and 1 druid is more often our tanking lineup as the 2 druids don't have the attendance rate that the warrior and I do.
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Postby Enkal » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:57 am

This is our "tank setup" for the weapons:

Axe Tank - Warrior
Sword & Dagger Tank – Me
Shield & Mace Tank - Druid
Staff Tank - Enhancement Shaman
Bow Tank - Hunter

If you can reach ph 4 with 25/25 ppl up you'll most probably kill him. :)
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Postby Hiroko » Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:13 am

Great, thanks :D

Now the long wait until Sunday when we go back for a full night on him :cry:
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Postby YoYoMa » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:56 am

We do:

Me: Dagger, Sword, Shield
Warrior: Mace
Druid: Axe
Hunter: Bow
Nobody: Staff (they just all zerg it)

We started with 4 tanks the first few times and then dropped it to 3 for the extra dps.
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Postby nicolax » Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:13 am

YoYoMa wrote:We do:

Me: Dagger, Sword, Shield
Warrior: Mace
Druid: Axe
Hunter: Bow
Nobody: Staff (they just all zerg it)

We started with 4 tanks the first few times and then dropped it to 3 for the extra dps.


we do almost the same, except i tank dagger,shield and mace and the warrior/druid tanking sanguinar in phase 1 and 3 takes the sword.
there is no need to take more damage than you should in phase 2, and the sword leaves a nasty debuff on you.
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Postby Enkal » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:21 am

This is horrible!! We've killed Kael 2 times so far, 32 ppl attuned. Phase 1-3 are executed just about perfectly with Sanguinar at below 50% at start of phase 4 (if we have the good prot warrior and not one of the 2 useless ones).

Enter phase 4: Egg dps - stinks, shield dps - so so, me getting chain MC'd and dps standing still in a tight group while a phoenix wipes us - priceless! :roll:

We wiped in phase 4 for 3 hours last night. One try I got MC'd 3 times in a row, another just 2 times etc. Bubble works for one of those... then when shock barrier and me MC'd happens at the same time... wipe. :(

In total we've wiped on Kael ph 4 for 7 hours this reset... QQ Dunno what to do. :(
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Postby Hiroko » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:46 am

Well, Kael's dead :)
Thanks for the the help in this thread everyone...

For phase 2 we finally went with
Axe - warrior (Kael MT)
Bow - Hunter
Mace & Staff - warrior (sangunar P3 tank)
Shield, Dagger, Sword - me

Melee dps'd mace first, then staff, then sword, then whatever's left.
Range dps's bow first then aoe on everything else.
Axe and shield tended to be the last ones to die as they didn't get as much attention from the melee.

in P3:
feral druid picked up telonicus
hunter on capernian
prot warrior on sanguinar

melee started on telonicus, then sanguinar
ranged started on thaladred, with the MT warrior debuffing him, then sanguinar, then capernian

With the timings being tight I'd pick up a mace and shield for myself, then dagger and sword to trade to the sanguinar tank, so she could dispel MC in P4.

I'd judge wisdom and spot-heal during P3 (with legendary mace) and try to be the one getting conflagrations.

In P4 I picked up the phoenixes, positioned them near the melee and we'd have the ranged put some dps on them in order to avoid having eggs and barriers to deal with at the same time. by doing this I think our MT only ate 1 pyro that wasn't absorbed by his shield, dps was able to get down the barrier in time to interupt the 2nd pyro the other times.
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Postby Strom » Tue May 06, 2008 1:18 pm

We are about to put in our first attempts on Kael Wed night. We look to be short some tanks, so how painful would it be if I tanked all weapons but the bow, axe, and staff?

Basically leaving me with:

Shield
Mace
Sword
Daggers
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Postby masterkiller » Tue May 06, 2008 1:33 pm

You can do it, grabbing them all will be harder then staying up. Make sure you drop consecrate over the weapons you want to grab. I usually off center mine to the right a bit. Then use target macros for each weapon and judge or auto for threat. Be ready to taunt as well. You can have a melee dps tank the staff and another to tank mace. Have all dps down the bow and another tank to grab the axe and you are set.
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Postby Strom » Wed May 07, 2008 6:32 am

masterkiller wrote:You can do it, grabbing them all will be harder then staying up. Make sure you drop consecrate over the weapons you want to grab. I usually off center mine to the right a bit. Then use target macros for each weapon and judge or auto for threat. Be ready to taunt as well. You can have a melee dps tank the staff and another to tank mace. Have all dps down the bow and another tank to grab the axe and you are set.


So what is the best weapon kill order?

We will have -

Warrior tank on Axe
Hunter on Bow
Feral(cat gear) on Staff
Me on rest (sword, mace, shield, daggers)


Also, do you all think its a smart thing to try this fight with 6 healers the fist time in to maximize DPS?
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Postby masterkiller » Wed May 07, 2008 12:19 pm

Yea 6 healers is fine. It's really not that healing intensive in the first 3 phases and once you get to final phases most concentration will be on the tank. 3 tanks, 6 healers, 16 dps is best way to go. Whether you AOE the weapons or single target is going to depend on what works best for you. We went AOE because we had 5 mages and 2 locks and destroyed them.
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Postby Chromax » Fri May 09, 2008 12:17 pm

We are currently workin on Kael as well, and we go with this set-up on weapons for P2:

Druid tank on Axe
Hunter on Bow
Warrior on Staff (for interrupts, with BOF)
Me on rest (sword, mace, shield, daggers)

We are AOE'ing down all of them with 10 to 15sec to spare for P3 (600 spell damage will ensure that by the 2nd Concecrate you will keep all of them on you with strong AOE)

Anyone know if its possible to have north of 25k HP with T4/T5 or badge gear so the 2nd Pyro is not an issue if you dont make the timing for the Shock Barrier?
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Postby Frank » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:03 am

My guild is currently working on speeding up phase 2.

What we have done so far is to have the bow tanked by a hunter off to the right side of the stage, the axe tanked by the Telonicus tank at the back of the stage, We AOE tank the rest in the middel of the stage with me on the sowrd, dagger and shield and the Sanguinar tank on the staff and mace.

I have instructed all ranged DPS to kill the bow first and all melee to single target the staff then the mace. Once the bow dies the single target ranged immediately help with the staff, then the mace, then the axe, while AOEers begin AOEing as soon as the bow is down. We keep a interrupter on the mace at all times so it can't heal.

Each attempt we had the bow, staff, mace down with the axe dying just as the advisors revived. That is leaving me with the shield, sword and dagger all at over 50% health.

We are obviously too slow with our DPS but that usually is not a problem for my guild, especially on AOE fights as we are usually AOE heavy, MH waves are a joke for us now for instance.

I'm hearing a lot of second guessing about the kill order. Many people are telling me that the Axe needs to die after the bow. I've read many strategies on this fight and none of them recommend that. I like the idea of downing the staff and mace so that they can be looted by everyone who needs them (some of the people who need the mace and staff have to leave early to get into position for phase 3) and so the mace cannot heal and the staff cannot pwn the raid. However I think the staff dying early is causing part of our DPS slowdown as all the DPSers are rushin in to loot instead of fighting.

What do you guys recommend I do to tweak our technique so that we get the weapons down faster?
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