Jan'Alai First Enrage Timer help

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Jan'Alai First Enrage Timer help

Postby dlantz » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:20 am

We've been on Jan'Alai for a couple weeks now. We've gotten the adds down just fine, and everyone's ok on the bombs. Our problem has been keeping the tank up after the soft enrage hits.

We usually heal with 1 resto druid and 2 holy pallys. Our tank has been myself, a warrior, and a druid on different attempts, all geared about as well as me, and regardless of who main tanks, the tank ends up dead well before the boss.

We usually hit the 5 min enrage timer with all the adds dead and Jan's health at about 35%. The tank's longevity is somewhat random from there, with me staying up anywhere from Jan at 8% (best) to Jan at 32% (worst).

I was concerned that his health is pretty high at the 5 min mark. Still well ahead of the 10 min enrage, but can the healers deal with that extra 10% health or do our dps need to step it up if we're going to kill him? Or do our healers just need to do something differently? I'm not sure what to tell them to do or what they're doing wrong.

I do check death logs after each death, and every death is accompanied by a 4-6 second gap in pally healing. What should I be telling them to do differently? Do our pallys just need to l2p? lol.

Any advice would be hugely appreciated. :)
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Postby Dorvan » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:25 am

Honestly, your healers need to stop sucking. The enrage isn't that big of a deal, especially when they've got you available to toss a few heals as well. Have you noticed any pattern to the tank deaths. One symptom I've seen is healers so focused on the fire bombs that they stop healing the tank entirely until the bombs go off....that can't happen.

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Postby dlantz » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:30 am

Isn't any real pattern. I suspected the healers were spending too much time raid healing, but our last few attempts neither pally cast any heals on anyone but me.

As I said, there's usually a 6 second gap where nothing but lifebloom and maybe 1 FoL lands right before each tank death. I ask the healers and they said they're casting HL every 2nd or 3rd heal and that they're spam casting, so what they're saying isn't matching the log.... thus I have no idea. lol
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Postby jere » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:02 pm

Oddly enough, during the fire bombs, I take the time to top the tank off and keeping him topped off until I see someone else healing him, then I go about repositioning for the next set of hatchers. This seems to help some.


But I do sometimes. I am a rebel though /rawr

Healers need to work on not getting distracted. My guess is that they are healing someone else and then immediately healing the tank cause he has taken damage. So from their perspective, it seems like they are spam healing, but from the tank's perspective they are not, and he/she might die from it. If the log says they didn't, then I would say go with the log and wprk on the healing. Get two different log addons and compare if there is any question in the legitimacy of the info.
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Postby Kellann » Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:30 pm

Dorvan wrote:Honestly, your healers need to stop sucking.


*There's not significantly more (probably less) overall damage during an 'enrage' with the adds dead, than there is when you're killing the adds. Additionally, this damage is more focused, as you have transitioned from (MT + OT + Splash) to (MT + Splash).

Unless your DPS/healers are getting hit by the bombs (and honestly, after a few tries you should only get hit if you disconnect or intentionally step on one) this should not be the sticking point.
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Postby Pallypete » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:30 pm

Yeah, I've noticed similar difficulty in our groups keeping the tank topped up. He doesn't usually die, but he does get uncomfortably close to dead sometimes (once he was at 500 hitpoints and I smacked him with a lay on hands. He almost shit a brick when he saw how big the heal was. :-P) I'd say it mostly has to do with people spending too much time getting repositioned during the bombs. Really you don't have to move at all until the final few seconds before they blow up, there's always a gap somewhere near the middle. Especially for paladins with their quick heals, they can throw out a few before they run to a safe spot then continue the heals. I usually try to toss a few heals when i can as well once the hawks are dead, but that doesn't last long.
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Postby mazater » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:41 pm

I would order the dr00d healer to heal the hatchling tank(when there's no hatchlings, heal somebody on random), I would also order one of the pallies to heal other raid members and the last pally to heal Jan'alai's tank.
Well, this works for us anyhoo.
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Postby dlantz » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:27 am

Right now, we have the druid doing all the raid healing and keeping a lifebloom stack up, and both pallys exclusively healing the tank. And yet that large gap without heals...

I can't help but feel like my healers just suck, but we've been raiding with them for months now and never had an issue like this before.
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Postby Greyjoy » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:06 am

yeah, after the eggs are down I go to my standard "whack the boss with nightfall and toss the occasional raid heal" mode. Yeah healing in tank gear sucks, but... well, the blessing of light on the tank makes it suck a tiny bit less? maybe. kinda. sure.

But seriously, only one healer *cough* druid *cough* should really be worried about the raid. (since he can HoT and forget about it) The paladins should be focused almost 100% on the tank. There is no excuse for a paladin heal to have not landed on him in 5-6 seconds.
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Postby guillex » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:17 am

Greyjoy wrote:But seriously, only one healer *cough* druid *cough* should really be worried about the raid. (since he can HoT and forget about it) The paladins should be focused almost 100% on the tank. There is no excuse for a paladin heal to have not landed on him in 5-6 seconds.

^--- This.

10 man raids that have pally healers should have them exclusively on the tank, POSSIBLY spot healing the raid if it gets to be too much for the drood (which it shouldn't).

Just get on their case, should be alright.
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Postby Kelissa » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:03 am

If you are stuck with two pally healers, you could also have them alternate using their bubble during the bomb phase. It will not get you through the entire fight, but may let you last a little longer. At least let them know to use it if necessary.
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Postby Seloei » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:09 pm

Is he immune to righteous defense?
Never tried it since the warrior/druid i run with tanks him is decent enough but... is he tauntable when the adds are dead and the soft enrage hits, and he starts swining like a madman speed? Both of em get crushed quite often during enrage so even in the "trash add gear" i would be taking a lot less damage.

Hmmm... actually I'll try doing that next run we have... my bets are that he is immune
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Postby Chyrin » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:39 pm

Yeah, he's immune. Best you can hope for is to get the hatchlings down quickly and then start building as much threat as you can, so if the tank dies, he can come to you and not the healers.
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Postby Zhalseran » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:44 pm

If your healers can't keep the tank up through the soft enrage, ESPECIALLY with no dragonhawks, then they just plain suck. The only thing that could possibly be a problem is, as pointed out, the bombs. Even then the druid's hots should be more than enough to keep the tank going while the holy pallies take a second to reposition.

The only other thing I can think of is to make sure they know to be preventative healers, not reactionary.
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Postby Sammuel » Thu May 08, 2008 4:05 pm

i have been lucky...we run 2 pallies and a priest mostly and do just fine. In fact our first guild kill of dragon was with 2 pallies and druid... the druid died within 2 mins cause of the fire and the pallies 2 man healed the rest of it... i hate to point fingers at your pallies but then again i consider my 2 guys pretty uber.. :)
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